T O P
dirtballmagnet

I'm thinking of Sir David Attenborough's voice over: *Once the apex predator of the steppes, the T-72 is now the prey. Mercilessly hunted by Javelin and artillery alike, they cower in the forests behind giant screens of attending infantry. And still, whenever they are found to be within range of the searching guns, the tell-tale smoke column marking its passing soon follows....*


possibilistic

> Once the apex predator of the steppes, the T-72 is now the prey. https://fakeyou.com/tts/result/TR:2wdtsas240pw7x6g06ep3b399gge4


LiamTheBobbitt

That's wild


infpTrojan

oh my god lmao


dirtballmagnet

Amazing!


Dux_Ignobilis

More! MORE!


Baron-von-Bruce

If I had a gold to give it would be yours sir!


RallyToTheColors

\- Sanya, how are things in Odessa? \- Well, Russia is kind of at war with NATO. \- How's it going? \- Russia has lost a cruiser, 30,000 men, 200 aircraft, and some other stuff. \- What about NATO? \- Sasha, you won't believe it, NATO hasn't arrived yet. ​ ​ \~ I saw this on a pro-Russian Telegram channel


CopyrightIssue

Ofc the other person is sasha.


tentafill

NATO troops? No.. but NATO intelligence probably causes 90% of the clips like this though lmao This is really a step up from ye olde proxy war


SCARfaceRUSH

As much as we enjoy the Western support, I think comments like this take away a bit of agency from the Ukrainian troops on the ground. Ukraine started building drone-based air recon units from the ground up starting in 2014. I doubt that there is any other military in the world that has as much real-world experience in this area right now. We built our own artillery targeting system that's integrated with the recon units and automates a lot of the calculations and data communications. It is constantly updated based on combat performance and feedback from artillerymen. Ukraine has one of the best and historied artillery schools in post-Soviet countries. For example, the Ground Forces School in Lviv was founded in 1899 by Franz Joseph I of Austria. Don't get me wrong, NATO intel is incredibly valuable and helps us a lot, especially now as we're starting to get more long-range "toys". We'd be in a worse situation than we are right now. But in all of these small engagements and skirmishes, I don't think it makes sense to attribute to NATO intel. I think UAF has enough tactical and operational proficiency at this point. It makes sense for large scale attacks though, like the recent ammo depo hit that was posted here a number of times, because NATO has a lot of overhead capabilities (satellite data, etc.).


HypedTHC

100% agree. As someone living in the west it’s annoying seeing people treat it all like it’s us fighting over there. No, we’re giving support and material but the massive fucking balls using those weapons and intel belong to Ukraine, not us. On the other hand I wish we could do a ton more, feels like right now we’re just using the Ukrainians to buy time. Would rather we have our forces on the ground next to them


PepegaQuen

NATO intelligence does not report on positions of single tanks.


temotodochi

No, but soldiers cell phones absolutely. I have no words to describe my unbelief when i first heard that both russians and ukranians carry their cell phones with them. You can pinpoint them very accurately from 100km with just normal cell towers out or much further if you are an proper signal intelligence unit and/or have airplanes for snooping. As recently as last week i read about some ukranian special forces unit that told stories of getting droned very fast even though they tried to sneak in through forests etc. AND THEY HAD THEIR FUCKING PHONES WITH THEM! Absolute amateurs. If any of those guys were under me, i'd hit the snot out of them if they didn't leave their phones at the barracks.


PepegaQuen

Ukraine has control over their cell phone network - they do this themselves.


temotodochi

Of course, but that's not nearly as accurate as proper signal intelligence and range is very limited compared. Signal intelligence corps can pinpoint it to meters from over 100km away. They just ask the phones for a ping and triangulate from that. Doesn't matter that the phone itself can't talk that distance. Good enough gear still hears it. Airplanes are very handy for this from a safe distance away and NATO has lots of such planes and drones. Needless to say if sigint spots a moving cell phone that arrives in some nearby forest, of course it's going to get investigated. I just can't understand why any of the soldiers keep their phones with them. Phones kill on a battlefield.


WarSniff

That is one of the fundamental purposes of the AWACs that are orbiting Poland.


tentafill

You sure about that lol


MrAdam1

I can promise you we don't use satellites in this way, in a conventional war we use satellites for operational and strategic intelligence. Niche situations where it is used on a tactical level would be for special operations raids on specific places or for aviation.


tentafill

There aren't any NATO members in a conventional war; the richest militaries on the planet have literally nothing else going on right now Besides that, it very well may be that observing strategic level movements lead to intel that causes tactical level drones like this to find otherwise absurdly well-camouflaged individual vehicles


MrAdam1

My comment isn't about prioritisation of targets based on work-load and therefore my argument doesn't hinge on making the point that NATO members are in a conventional war. Anyone who knows how the military works or how companies work knows that not even the Wehrmacht in the eyes of Wehraboos would be organisationally competent or flexible enough to process and disseminate satellite intel to tactical level artillery batteries in any meaninful timeframe. President Biden might as well be calling Private Schendenko and ordering him to fire the GP-25 in the 3rd floor windows instead of the 2nd floor windows.


tentafill

Not necessarily a counter, but do you know about Ukraine's "revolutionary" artillery app, which is intended to do exactly that?


MrAdam1

GIS ARTA doesn't use satellite intelligence from the NRO, it's an app for Ukrainians to spread intel/targets on a map that they can all view/contribute to.


tentafill

No, but it would be the perfect app to allow such a thing, because its whole purpose is to allow the highest level intel to make it to individual guns


-Frances-The-Mute-

> the richest militaries on the planet have literally nothing else going on right now Not true. They're all planning and training for WW3. While hoping and praying that it never happens.


tentafill

..what better training than Ukraine??


-Frances-The-Mute-

The main goal of any military is to protect their country. It would be irresponsible to devote all your time and resources to saving millions of people... when hundreds of millions or billions may die if you're unprepared. The support for Ukraine was planned for years by the US before any invasion took place. Without that planning, and subsequent support, things would be a lot worse right now. You ask for things that make no logical sense.


2lovesFL

NSA does


Tristancp95

The NSA reports on the positions of tankies, not tanks


OnkelMickwald

The joke is that Russia has lost shit tons of materiel and manpower while NATO hasn't lost shit cus they haven't engaged their forces yet. The purpose of the joke is to lampoon Russia, not NATO.


das_war_ein_Befehl

That’s not how that works at all. Ukrainians can just use small drones for this


Hkonz

Yeah, if we believe the crazy numbers coming from Kyiv. I honestly don’t think the RU has committed 200 aircraft to the campaign in total.


drakka100

It could be 200 aircraft if drones are included but theres no way they have lost anywhere close to 200 fixed wing aircraft


Allyoucan3at

[Oryx](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1) tracked almost 100 aircraft (fixed wing + helis) its likely the documentation rate is higher than with land vehicles but still likely the number is higher. Also documented 88 destroyed and damaged drones. 200 aircraft including drones is pretty much confirmed with sources so actual losses are probably even higher.


talldangry

That's what I'm thinking. 200 doesn't seem farfetched if it's drones + rotary + fixed wing.


iPon3

For the joke's purposes I'm happy to accept helos, which both sides have lost aplenty


earthforce_1

Legally in this country both helicopters and drones are considered aircraft, manned or not. (I am a licensed drone pilot)


shartpatrol

200 seems a bit high but I do suspect the helicopter numbers are higher than what we are seeing on Oryx. Even still, I doubt it's 200. Maybe 125-150 total(planes and helos).


drakka100

I think Oryx is most accurate for planes and helicopters, a plane/heli going down is highly noticable and will possibly be witnessed by a lot of people + Aircraft kills give you way more bragging rights so it would be highly likely that Ukrainian servicemen would want to photograph the wreck. ​ No one cares as much about dime-a-dozen soviet APC's wrecks so the Oryx numbers may potentially be inaccurate regarding Russian ground vehicle losses, the Ukrainian defence ministry released some vehicle loss numbers last week and they were triple and in some cases quadruple the losses listed on Oryx so that goes to show how inaccurate Oryx is for ground vehicles


Puzzleheaded-Job2235

I imagine there are quite a few aircraft and helicopters that go down in Russian held territory that don't get photographed. So it's likely Russia has suffered more air losses than what Oryx has verified. Still probably nowhere near what the Ukrainians are claiming but likely substantial.


I_Hate_Exit_Campers

If we were to apply the same ratio of shoot downs to visually confirmed on oryx for ukranian losses you would end up with over 180 fixed wings. Ukraine only had 110 at the start of the war so those numbers that Ukraine are claiming for russian fixed wing losses have have to be massively inflated.


Allyoucan3at

Oryx tracked ~40 Ukrainian planes and helos lost and ~80 Russian. So if 200 is accurate for Russia we'd assume 100 for Ukraine with equal documentation rate. Numbers from Wikipedia indicate 120 Ukrainian jets alone, so not entirely unlikely. I think the 200 are probably inflated or drones included.


0xnld

Not all hits result in a complete airframe loss. Su-25 is a quite sturdy one afaik. It's possible for one to sustain pretty heavy damage and still go back to base, but it's not going to be airworthy for a while. There were a few pics floating around with lots of shrapnel damage to the tail of one anyway. Ukrainian AF counts expended ammo and hits/misses, from what I've heard here.


Timmetie

However, planes and helicopters are also way more likely to go down behind enemy lines, where getting pictures of them is more difficult.


drakka100

Most of the planes/helis we have seeing going down are shot down while performing attacks in Ukrainian held territory and they go down there


Timmetie

Planes that get hit don't crash straight down. They try to hit their own territory. CAS is usually close to the lines. Add to this the planes that go down purely faults, they'll also be able to at least get to their own lines.


angryteabag

plane or heli can be hit in the air, and then return to their home base and crash on the landing strip.......or land successful but it's so damaged that its written of as unusable for future use (which would mean its ''lost'' regardless even if there wasn't a big impressive crash with fire and explosions)


zenithtreader

By all western intelligence estimations, the number coming from Kyiv is way, way more realistic and accurate than the number Russia is giving out.


Roflkopt3r

Yeah the official Ukrainian numbers are exaggerated in some areas, especially aircraft. In others they are actually pretty close, especially tank and possibly personell. We have a solid baseline in form of [Oryx' list](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html) so we do know for sure that Russian losses are huge. Russia losing a solid third of their total active tank arsenal wasn't on anyone's cards for this.


oktsi

r/whoooooosh


[deleted]

[удалено]


monial

I don't think you responding to official Russian or Ukrainian goverment or military reports. I think it might be a satire o joke of some kind.... Anyways...


mikeuntold

I've always found it crazy how artillery can hit pin point targets these days.


Grauvargen

Remember, back during WW1, artillery was so inaccurate entire batteries would fire all day long to maybe take out what modern artillery now does with ten shells, tops. Now that's crazy.


the_last_carfighter

Well shells and batteries seem like a poor choice for taking out most things. I hope they were at least using D cells. I'll sea myself out.


tablecontrol

> I'll ~~sea~~ C myself out. you missed a golden opportunity


Atherum

Nah it worked because of "shells". He *did* say sea after all.


Bart-o-Man

This joke has been assigned a AAA rating


Grauvargen

While you might know, for the uninitiated, a group or unit of artillery units are on occasion referred to as a battery. This was originally most commonly used for defensive artillery, put on fortresses and castles. One definition quite literally states, "a number of pieces of artillery used together." Warship cannons also operate(d) in batteries.


SnooCheesecakes450

And it comes from from Old French baterie, from battre ‘to strike’, in English "to batter".


EightballTV

To be fair, the lines were so large then too that it didn't matter if you weren't hitting your target, plus with saturation of fire, you were hitting something anyway, lol. Not so sure accuracy would have made much of a difference back then without other interventions, too. They wanted to decimate an entire trench line, not just pop a single machine gunner in a bush.


MrAdam1

"ten shells, tops." ​ With drones for correction, most Ukrainian artillerymen seem to be saying in videos that it is rare to not hit after 3 shells.


Mr06506

While true, don't forget we're seeing selection bias here. There have probably been thousands of attempted engagements on tanks, and we get to watch the one successful hole in one. Obviously it helps that this is the most videoed conflict in history.


Preachey

I saw some numbers a few days ago that said Russia was firing 60,000 shells _per day_. The same numbers also said Ukraine was firing 1/10 of that. That's an enormous amount of shots.


AndersBodin

it's actually not that much, 24 shells for every kilometre of the frontline.


Phaarao

Yeah, averaged out. The thing is, 90% of the frontline is not shelled, so the fire is *much* more concentrated than that.


StockWillingness2748

Exactly. Artillery rounds for the most part aren't pin point accurate. Unless they're using GPS guided shells. Usually the first couple shots are off while the gun is adjusted to hit the target.


DouchecraftCarrier

And I think we've seen that in some of those drone videos of attacks on depots and such. A "reference shell" is fired, and then they just adjust the guns based on where it landed. It seems to me that they get surprisingly good accuracy with that.


implicitpharmakoi

Satellites + good weather data + computers = ludicrously accurate 1st shots. This isn't the somme anymore.


chachi_0991

Still only with GPS guided/aided munitions. You can meet all 5 requirements for accurate fire and most likely will still be adjusting follow on rounds when firing anything other than smart munitions. Ask any artilleryman.


Panzerdrek

No amount of accuracy is going to be able to account for random variables line turbulence, variable wind speeds, microscopic surface defects in the shells and barrel and so on. Even the most accurate artillery has significant statistical variation in target accuracy. The exception is guided artillery where the round can correct itself in flight, but we are talking about dumb rounds here. If you get a direct hit on the first shot, to a considerable degree that's lucky.


no8airbag

ior propaganda


PinguPST

Are M777 rounds guided? or only some of them? Ta


StockWillingness2748

Without GPS guidance they aren't getting "ludicrously accurate 1st shots". If it happens it's more by chance than accuracy. I suppose accuracy isn't all that important when you have a death radius of 100m plus. But to hit a vehicle, you're not hitting it with the first round.


implicitpharmakoi

By GPS I'm assuming you mean guided shells? Because GPS can mean more than that. It's more that the software has improved dramatically.


SteelCrow

https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/ukraine-military-gps-guided-precision-artillery-excalibur


implicitpharmakoi

Yeah, remember them, didn't think we were giving them to the ua yet. because they're expensive.


SteelCrow

Canada sent 4 m777 howitzers with amunition back in april. https://sofrep.com/news/canada-is-sending-ukraine-excalibur-precision-guided-extended-range-artillery-shells/


StockWillingness2748

Yeah. GPS guided rounds.


experts_never_lie

And moving targets. Cannon-launched guided projectiles, ramjet shells, all sorts of things are at some mix of ready or in the works. Of course, a lot will be too expensive or limited to be practical, but it seems that there's a lot of activity out there.


Dark_Kayder

Drone directed artillery is the future of warfare.


TheBellmanHimself

Most of that is laser or GPS guided projectiles.


MacAneave

M777 uses guided projectiles, which is one reason it could be a game changer.


chachi_0991

*can* use guided munitions. All depends on what they’re supplied with.


1SharkBait

Seeing these russian tanks burn is worth my taxes


HypedTHC

Had a friend share something on fb about the $10b we’ve sent to Ukraine. Pointed out how minuscule that it compared to budget and military spending, but even if it wasn’t I’d gladly let the gov throw on another 5% in taxes if it meant more Javelins for our ukranian homies


chrsb

It’s amazing how far artillery has come along. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s I was a 13F forward observer and we were lucky to adjust fire and get a direct hit. We had FistV that had GPS and could laz a Target but still didn’t have these types of hits.


chachi_0991

The capabilities to have first round effects have improved drastically I’m sure but “dumb munitions” would be about the same as 30 years ago. Still making that bracket to get effects. Lol current 13A.


thelapoubelle

Would an 80s era copperhead round be capable of the sort of precision?


chrsb

We shot 3 for some general one day. The first 2 we’re duds. lol. But yes we could laz those on a target.


thelapoubelle

Well that is a little embarrassing when there's a 2/3 failure rate during a live demo 😬 But that is also how Iive demos always seem to go


chrsb

I wonder if that’s what some of these direct 1 round hits are. Laser guided howitzer rounds. The copper heads we guided in were from airplanes.


thelgur

Very likely, Ukraine manufactures laser guided shells and even mortar rounds. Probably not large numbers of them but they do have them. So most likely not m777 but one of the old Soviet pieces shooting Kvitnik


friendsshare

You can tell that its really windy from the trees moving but that drone is very steady


Prototype2001

Don't understand what you're trying to imply here. That this is fake? that wind at ground level is the same at 500ft? Stabilizers don't exist? I really can't tell by your "You can tell" statement.


friendsshare

You can read it that way but I just thought that drone operator was a good pilot. Why would I go to this subreddit to make comment against Ukraine? That would be weird.


Picturesquesheep

It’s not the operator it’s the flight control chip of the drone. It has gps and digital gyroscopes in it, when it detects itself drifting it compensates to stay in place.


friendsshare

That's cool thanks for the information


freetimerva

This was a wild post.


Prototype2001

I guess its wild if you just make observational statements of the obvious and not conspiracy flat Earth nut-job subtle implications, which I thought you were going for.


freetimerva

Doubled down. Impressive.


Prototype2001

At least you're impressed by the simplest things in life; windy trees and steady drones.


freetimerva

Oh boy. That's a lot of damage for your therapist to unwrap.


El_Jose_22

The irony, the lack of self awareness, the doubling down. 10/10


DarthSnoopyFish

Lol, weirdo


WLUmascot

I wonder if this was one of the four M-777s Canada donated to the cause. Go Ukraine!


OuchPotato64

Can some explain to me how artillery is so accurate these days?


Ro500

Our tubes and rounds are all around better, instant feedback spotting and fire correction from drones and in some instances guided munitions like Excalibur or Copperhead rounds which are GPS and laser guided respectfully.


StockWillingness2748

They're not that accurate per say. They have a lethality range of anywhere from 100m around impact to 400m depending on ammo. The most accurate rounds are GPS guided. Unlikely Ukraine would have those as they're very expensive. Usually artillery shoots one round. A spotter of sorts sees where that one round hit. They'll relay corrections to crew working the gun. They'll fire another shot. More corrections etc until pretty much on target. Once on target, usually more than one gun will shoot at that same location, or battery as they're called.


implicitpharmakoi

Real time satellite uplinks/drones + good weather data + topographical map data + computers to churn the solution.


chachi_0991

The 5 requirements. Accurate target location and size, accurate firing unit location, accurate weapons and ammunition information, accurate met data and accurate computational procedures. There’s your doctrinal answer. If all 5 requirements are met then that’s when you have the best probability of first round effects when using anything *other* than GPS guided/aided munitions. A.k.a, dumb rounds. Even with all those met, the observer will still usually have to make adjustments.


tranquility30

Direct hit huh....Do we know if they received Excalibur rounds? Or maybe M1156 PGKs (basically the 'JDAM version' of artillery - a GPS guidance kit added to a normal round)?


Admirable-Cobbler501

I would Love to See an NEXTER Bonus round from an Cesaer Arti ...


tranquility30

Had to look that one up - pretty cool. Kind of like the arty version of BLU-108 huh?


Admirable-Cobbler501

Yes, from what I read they should be similar.


DaGhostQc

It's not mentionned if it was 1 shot or 5 after correcting with drone inputs.


tranquility30

True, but can unguided rounds be accurate enough to even hit the same tank-sized area repeatedly, even if the M777 was locked into a massive vice and no changes were made? I feel things like wind change, temperature of the barrel, micro-deviations in the charge, etc. might be enough to make tank sized hits (even with correction) extremely difficult at these ranges. Basically asking, what's the MOA-rating or standard-deviation on a M777 shooting normal/unguided rounds (looks like M107 & M795)? \*\*\*EDIT: Page 6 shows the M795 has a CEP of 62meters @ 10km and 139meters @ 20km+. So it's likely they either saturated the area and got a lucky hit, or they're using a guided round. [https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2012/annual\_psr/Milner.pdf](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2012/annual_psr/Milner.pdf)


lilpumpgroupie

'Guys, are we going to do the X-Files theme song on this one, or the house beat one that everybody knows?'


Sonic_Bro_

this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-44oa0jYpVI


Ravenjeff007

I watched the video and yes, 10 % or so of the population supports the Russians and by the time the Russians take more cities, if they can, many, maybe most of those people who stayed will be dead. Killed by their liberators, a true irony of irony. When Ukraine wins the war, the Russian supporter and traitors to Ukraine (that remain alive) will find little sympathy in Ukraine. By the time the war is over there not be any open support for Russia in Ukraine. The hatred of anything and anyone Russian will last for a great many generations. Ukraine's greatest heroes are those that stood up to the Russians (Soviet Union) in the past. The few Russian supporters that will remain in Ukraine will be shunned and treated as the traitors that they are. Just as Germans were forced out of land where they lived for hundreds of years at the end of WW2, the Russians left in Ukraine will follow the Russian military out of Ukraine. There will no longer be a Russia question in Ukraine, as the vast majority of Russians and their supporters will exit, except the ones who were killed by their liberators. They will forever fertilize Ukraine's soil.


MrG00SEI

Russian bots boofing some copium rn


shootme83

Nice!


Zealousideal_Lack871

Something wrong with Video, I cant hear music?


SlowSecurity9673

I hope to one day die that quickly. Or live forever. But if I do die taking a howitzer she'll to the dome oughta do it.


Ravenjeff007

To the Russian supporters and other Ukraine haters, the Russians can eventually take territory, but they are spread way, way to thin to control it effectively or at a certain point, at all. It is basic math the Russians and their allies only have 200,000 troops, so they only have 2 troops per sq Km max to control the 100,000 Sq Kms of new, yes newly conquered Ukranian territory. Their lines are like Swiss cheese, full of holes and the rear areas are staffed with men with little to no training. Yes, they can have more troops on the front lines per sq km, but that means less in the rear areas. They need a million men or more, just to hold what they have.


69problemCel

Yes it will be very hard for Russian to control the territory when local population is so against them https://youtu.be/CcQJJIvakwo


Lucky-Direction-7706

They gotta be testing some variant of the Excalibur round. The accuracy is almost statistically impossible, by the number of direct hit videos we see.


DisturbedScorch

Ruzzian noob shoulda bought the camo netting upgrade, gives you 20% reduction in spotting. That way you don't get one shotted by arty at the start of the match 🤣