The video looks put together, but looks like there was UA resistance there that this tank was trying to mop up without knowing one of them had anti tank weapons.
Put together? Not sure what you mean but...
From start to finish, each change of perspective identifies a feature seen in the next frame. It's all one trip just showing turning corners and firing.
Modern AT's can destroy modern tanks as well, also western tanks.
It might be that for the crew a T64 is even saver in being hit than a T90 (without APS)
Russian "liberation" - who the fuck would ever want that after seeing this
Or any number of other brutal military actions against civilians by them and the USSR
>who the fuck would ever want that after seeing this
Russians. This is probably an improvement over how many of them lived back in the far east of Russia. For instance, I'd imagine at least some of those homes still have toilet bowls.
"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived." - Jean Rasczak
I disagree with the part that says "all authorities derive from violence", don't you? For example, an ancient master in painting has authority over his young students. And violece is not involved at all there.
It's Starship Troopers, a movie about space fascists. Which apparently confused a lot of people when it first came out because they thought it was going to be an action movie and they ended up getting political commentary disguised as satire disguised as an action movie. That's why it had such a mixed reception but became a cult classic.
Good overview [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkEdyq3UE5M) if you're interested.
Isn't politics a little more specific than that? For example, when a dog decides to eat an orange instead of an apple, I don't think we should say it's making politics.
I'm not saying wars aren't a politics thing tho.
Politics is an extension of what the people want. Politics does not control the people, people control the politics. What you are watching is the desire of the Russian people. This can be stopped if the Russian people desired for it to stop.
As a political science graduate: no, that is not how it works. Not at all.
Even in the most democratic political systems that currently exist, 'the people' do not 'control' politics. They influence them, and this influence is in many cases insufficient to determine policy outcomes.
For instance, American politicians have launched many foreign military interventions that the people had little to no interest in. If the decision to invade was simply up to the people, most of these interventions wouldn't have happened. But their influence on the democratic system was insufficient to steer American foreign policy in these instances.
In a much less democratic system like Russia (which is essentially a fascist autocracy), the notion that the people control politics is laughable.
Russian army is Russian people. You can't fight a war without an army. Enough Russian people want this to fight a war.
You can cry propaganda or just following orders, but that doesn't change the reality that the Russian army is Russian people.
Lol, Russians are paying taxes for Putin, fighting for Putin, not protesting against Putin, etc. Not all of them, but the vast majority. There are always choices.
Ultimately, the people always have control over a government. Ask Nicolae Ceaușescu, Muammar Gaddafi, or Benito Mussolini.
But I agree that it's rather indirect control, and things have to be desperate before a popular uprising will happen, let alone succeed. Life for ordinary Russians seems to be not very bad right now, so they have no motivation to risk their lives challenging the government's authority. Russia is a net food exporter and net energy exporter, so they are unlikely to go cold or hungry, which are frequently the "final straws".
I can’t (but kinda can) believe they still don’t give their tanks proper support. Like they even changed their tactics as a whole in the east and are “succeeding” but they just refuse to support the tanks.
From what I've heard, they just dont have the infantry.
IIRC the "standing" army is supposed to man the tanks and in case of war, the necessary infantry-support would be drawn from the general draft. But since Russia hasnt declared it a war, or started a draft, they just dont have enough Infantry available
Even if they have the bodies to fill the infantry ranks on paper, those conscripts are not magically and instantly going to be capable of performing combined arms operations.
It’s not rocket science, but it’s not exactly easy either.
E: ranks! Not tanks! Sorry
When you have old people saying they will take their shotgun to the Russians, knowing it won’t work, just to distract the invaders for a moment to let the frontline infantry an opportunity to attack, you have a steel in the populace that no army on the planet could defeat, short of just executing a mass genocide.
>still don’t give their tanks proper support
While they probably havent changed much, it's worth noting this video is probably ancient, look at the lack of leaves on the trees, this vid is probably from early in the war.
They probably don't
Perun did a good video where he outlined Russian man power requirements and showed (fairly conclusively IMO) That they don't have the bodies to man all the vehicles and provide infantry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKewF8_SiIs
Ukraine should just make some sort of standing offer to all Russian AF members to desert (e.g., $1,000 + 3-months free lodging + citizenship once they’ve proven they’re not an infiltrator) and/or a tiered system that pays more for elite soldiers and ones w/valuable intel (both of which they would be required to authenticate). What a coup it would be to get even a quarter of some SOF unit to defect to Ukraine.
i dont think they take the t-64 for fun, dependent on which report you read, these are either their last tanks, or just a gift to the reserve for their own free tactical use. The battlefield is saturated with modern anti tank weapons. These tanks aren't build to fight against a modern army. So, for me its really puzzling how to interprete the use of them. In a perfect russian world, russian soldiers wouldn't have to use these. Next thing is, that once you introduce these into the battlefield, you'll require repair teams that are able to work on this system.
You could add an omnidirectional APS and do a good job of dragging any tank into the 21st century. It just seems like no one has fielded such a system.
The point is that tanks are old because new tanks are expensive. The US spends more money on thr military than russias GDP. So pointing out that russia is using 60 year old tanks is kind of moot.
I think it's also the fact that they rolled in with modern T72s, T80s, T90s, even some of the modern T90 packages. Now they have to bring in T64s. The "old" thing itself is kind of weak but relevant considering they have to use those now.
The only thing they changed in Severodonetsk is that they're throwing more artillery and infantry at the city than before. The tactics are the same, it's just a bit more effective with the numbers they're committing to the effort.
Would be so sweet if Ukraine had access to a nice bit of PGM tech to take out clusters of armoured vehicles... I'm not quite at Polish levels yet, but the more I hear about Russians shelling towns (and their populations) to pieces, the more I want military intervention to put an end to their war crimes.
There is not enough infantry available, in parts due to conscious choices on forces structure, this being a "special operation" and casualties.
https://warontherocks.com/2022/06/not-built-for-purpose-the-russian-militarys-ill-fated-force-design/
The infantry can’t cover and clear and hold the entire area from which modern ATGMs like the Jav can engage. The range is too long and the area far too big.
That tank had some support. Video shows some Russians crawling beside the nearby houses. But, they can't expand enough of that infantry cover with just one squad of men like in the video.
> yes Russians seem to have this theory that tanks don’t need infantry support.
Shit even I know this from playing Battlefield games online. Especially on breakthrough, You can’t just spawn in a tank and drive to an objective that’s heavily defended alone. You’re not gonna last long and you’re just fucking your team over by losing whatever force multiplier you had.
Basically my strategy was to let about 5 teammates go forward to draw out the enemy and locate where most of the fire was coming from and then launch a round in that direction. Move forward, rinse and repeat.
I mean a javelin can only penetrate like 500mm of RHA. Your T64 has like 20mm of RHA on the top, so as long as your skin is as strong as 48cm (19 inches) of steel you will be fine. What could go wrong?
Just for reference because people don't realize how much steel that is, a 1 foot square plate of AR500 steel 19" thick would be 790 pounds/ roughly 4000kg m^2.
That's the craziest thing to me about the armored combat Ukraine. I've fought in Iraq on M1s, so I have a bit of perspective on what it's actually like to operate a tank in combat but at the same time I understand Ukraine is a totally different animal. Like we were fighting a bunch of poorly armed insurgent goons and we still wouldn't roll out a tank alone like that. There was *always* infantry, a Bradley or another tank nearby to support and help watch your back. Granted, we often kept the tanks at the FOB and rolled wheels, and the insurgents didn't have even close to the AT capability the Ukrainians have, but still.
Russia's tank tactics just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the infantry nearby, or the videos aren't showing the other tank in their platoon 400m away in the tree line? Maybe the grunts are in the buildings nearby out of view? I don't know, but these tanks *never* seem to have any kind of friendly support of any kind. Or I suppose maybe we aren't seeing videos when they do have actual support and an ATGM team gets shooed off or smoked before they can fire? From what I can see though, these guys don't set these tankers up for success.
Assuming that's the case, it absolutely blows my mind that Russia has not learned from their mistakes here. They need to keep these tanks back with the grunts and other vehicles so they can push up together and watch carefully for Ukrainian ATGM teams. Like how haven't they figured this shit out by now? Is the fact that they are losing T-90s like nothing and that they're having to roll out T-fucking-62s not evidence enough their TTPs are woefully lacking? I don't know if it's sheer incompetence, command's complete disregard for minimizing friendly casualties or some combination of both. My peanut Westerner tanker brain just cannot figure this shit out. It's like their commanders are sitting there "Oleg, why are we losing so many tanks?" "Hmm, I don't know Dmitry, let's keep doing what we're doing and see if something changes."
> "Oleg, why are we losing so many tanks?" "Hmm, I don't know Dmitry, let's keep doing what we're doing and see if something changes."
[Literally the Zap Brannigan stratergy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF3g4Ua5e7k&ab_channel=irasaiger). Just keep sending stuff and hope the Ukranians run out of AT
I think their training just sucks so bad, their infantry/tanks/etc. wouldn't know how to effectively work together and support each other even if they did try to keep them together.
They're basically taking anybody they can convince to sign a contract to join the fight, and shipping them to Ukraine as fast as they can. Their soldiers are probably barely having enough training time to learn how to use their basic firearms, much less any sort of combined ops tactics.
just look what they did in mariupol, they shot into every room to make sure there is no hospitable place left. Needless to say the civilian death toll is staggering
Not likely in this video I'd say. More likely this tank was called up to destroy certain houses identified as fighting positions. Infantry engages or observes, sees where the enemy likely is, calls up the tank and directs it to fire into these buildings. Tank fires off a few rounds and retreats, hopefully before any enemy anti-tank can move into position to take it out.
I would assume that the guy in dark attire seen moving up closer to the tank on the left side of the screen is a Russian soldier. Also at 0:28 - 0:32 between the tank and building, you can see what I assume is a group of Russian infantry moving up after the tank is done destroying the positions and retreats.
> why they are all getting slaughtered like pigs
I too, am so glad to see Ukraine's amazing successes in repelling Russia. Every single day, they are being pushed back to where they came from.
Slava Ukraini.
Even if the enemy has turned the village into a stronghold and is actively shooting at you? In that case the US army might have a lot of explaining to do...
If their mission was to "destroy civilian structures" I can assure you they have much more effective ways of leveling villages. Or entire cities, for that matter.
You think it makes more sense that their mission was to clear out a village that the enemy had fortified "into a stronghold" and they decided to carry out this mission using *exactly one tank*?
if you invade a country don't be surprised if the country resists. Do you expect them to have lines of soldiers waiting for a set battle out in a field like the napoleonic era?
Don't be fucking stupid
[https://twitter.com/Blue\_Sauron/status/1539939352230371329](https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1539939352230371329)
Here you can see a few more seconds after the hit. Looks like a big hole near the turret, looks like oil on the street, looks like it's not going anywhere.
This could be something different than Javelin, the video quality was good, we should have able to see the missile hitting the tank but we did not, also the attack was from the rear, I know Javelin can do top and direct attacks but I suppose troops will use top attack in this environment
This was not a Javelin. Even in top-down you would see it coming in. Anyway, it's an impossible hit from far away due to all the buildings. You need line of sight at some point. It also looks like it's coming from behind (or above), where the tank came from.
This was probably an artillery shell, cause there is no tank visible anywhere to make the hit from behind.
Source: former anti-tank infantryman. I was trained on the Javelin's predecessor, the M-47 Dragon.
It was alright, but I have no comparison since it's the only system I've used. Since it's an older system, its range was much shorter and it was less powerful than the Javelin.
We practiced with an invisible IR beam that you could point at reflectors on a vehicle to see if you'd hit. There was a simulator tube that contained a weight that swung forward inside the tube to simulate recoil. That thing weighed like 25kg vs. the 14kg of the real weapon or even less for a targeting IR device + empty tube. Infantry gear + rifle + 25kg simulator = only moderately fun in the field.
It was SACLOS, not fire-and-forget, so you had to sit under it until it hit.
The shortest distance from the edge of the video to the tank is from the top, so I think it's sort of evidence of a top down attack? Either that or a tank shell.
Most likely, there's no real reason why you wouldn't use top-down in a situation such as this one where the tank is in the open and there are no high buildings (assuming you're in range for both modes)
I think it is partially selection bias. The tanks traveling alone are much more likely to be picked off and end up here than the ones with adequate infantry support. Still feels like way too many lone tanks.
If an Abrams got picked off like this with no support, whoever was in charge would be facing severe consequences for allowing it to happen. Goes to show the difference between western and Russian armies is that the Russians really don’t care if a few of their tanks and crews get smoked out in the middle of nowhere
I do remember seeing a line of tanks with infantry support. Ukrainians fired super danger close to get a bunch of shots off with maximum accuracy. Russian infantry seemed to think it was drone and tries to scatter? Mmyea.
Just an fyi, and yes I'm being pedantic, "danger close" is used for artillery strikes that are close to friendlies (i think for US M777 the distance under which it's considered "danger close" is 600m and <200m is basically calling arty on your own position but I'm not sure if those are the correct specific figures)
Danger close generally describes the minimum safe distance that any weapon system is used near friendlies. In the US at least, the term is used this way commonly, from small to large HE.
E: typo
"Danger close" is used for any type of munition. It simply means that said munition is being deployed against the enemy while they are in close enough proximity to friendly forces that they themselves could be hit by those munitions. An A-10 30mm gun run could require a danger close designation too.
There seems to be infantry lurking very very close to the tank, from 20 seconds you can see someone walking behind the house middle left hand side of the frame. Could be Russian Infantry guarding the back of the tank.
Or could be Ukrainian Infantry stalking the tank.
Edit: At 30 seconds the tank drives right past some infantry out in the open.
while this is definitly true I just wonder how much an infantery screen helps you in this flat open land when the javelin or stugna-p has a range of 5km.
What is the infantery supposed to do against that threat?
What a “mental” *ahem* image, Doom Tag maybe, or call it the game of Coup-Coup (pronounced coo-coo) from the concept of counting coup, where the coolest thing a warrior can do is touch an armed enemy with your hand.
My understanding is that this is one of the fundamental issues of tanks nowadays. I think I've heard of combined arms groups trying to use recon drones on the extreme ranges to try to detect enemy infantry, and then use suppressing fire on them... but yeah 5 km is a large stretch.
> What is the infantery supposed to do against that threat?
Identify and return fire at the ATGM launcher, or pose such a threat of doing so that the ATGM launcher is afraid of taking a shot, at least without the ability to shoot and scoot.
Without the infantry cover, it's a turkey shoot. With infantry cover, the ATGM guys have to be very very careful about how and where and when they take their shot.
Just because you don't see any soldiers doesn't mean there aren't any.
In a house-to-house fighting environment, soldiers are most likely going to be sitting in a house.
This one isn't alone. Far from it. There's a few people moving up behind the tank starting some 5 seconds in, on the left side. And between 0.29 and 0.31 there are at least 3 people visible against the white building right next to the tank. You probably need to watch it on a bigger screen.
yeah, i wonder how much a t-64 costs currently. A shot of a tank is definitely more cost effective than a javelin in this case. Another interesting point is, if this was a tank shot, it implies tank battles, which are suprisingly rare (at least thats what commentators pointed out). T64 is clearly worse for tank vs tank battles and more appropriate for supporting infantry and attacking defensive positions/defending positions.
A T-64 doesn't have a cost anymore, just a stockpile. They stopped being produced in 1987. Russia built 13,000 but obviously will not have them all anymore.
Since they are using up backroom garbage the only real loss is the tank crew and the money invested shipping the tank to Ukraine.
Crews are likely going to be an issue long before money/tanks becomes one. Russia already has notable manpower shortages.
Close up top view of the tank after the hit and after the crew had bailed: [https://i.gyazo.com/0fd7de7382d8ff2c33cbca9bc9bfb74a.jpg](https://i.gyazo.com/0fd7de7382d8ff2c33cbca9bc9bfb74a.jpg)
The tank was hit in the (lower?) back body. The motor was taken out but no secondary fires or explosions took place. There's no way this was done by a Javelin, otherwise the tank would have suffered much more damage. Plus the point of impact is unlikely for a Javelin, even at short distance and even in direct fire mode (Javelin climbs up to 60m, even in direct fire mode).
Looking at the video I got to say that I don't know what caused this. I can't make out any projectile homing in on the tank. Maybe a remotely triggered IED or EFP? Maybe some RPG that was used at too short distance so the warhead didn't arm? That would explain the light damage and the lack of a smoke trail.
I am with you. Definitely not any type of missile like a javelin. My money is on a lucky artillery shot or IED. A mine wouldn't blast up through the center, but an IED could.
Russian strategy - Take 1960's technology to blindfire every building in the town with high explosives.
Ukraine strategy - Take 1990's-2020's technology to track the tank via UAV, and destroy it with one guided missile.
T-64 means it was probably used by separatist forces. I could imagine they're also spread very thin and not equipped well enough to operate in large numbers per engagment.
Look at the insane destruction of the town - I hope the crew all died painfully and now charred BBQ. You can't possibly have any sympathy for these monsters.
Tanks have so much more survivability than people have given them credit for to be honest.
In a meat grinder like this I’m thinking a lot of soldiers are much more willing to being in a heavy armoured vehicle then when they take what seems like a big hit they just bail out and run, doesn’t matter save yourself lol no wonder some tanks have changed sides twice or even more 😂
Before I thought other than a modern abrams with blast panels only a mad man would want to be a tanker, I associated beings tanker with burning to death horribly.
It seems hard to believe that anyone could support the Russians but I guess their propaganda works on a captive audience. I am not making excuses for them far from it. Anyone under 50 should be able to download VPN and watch real news instead of Putin news network.
...mmh, does seem right, someone geolocated it to the outskirts of Marinka, near Donetsk, and there were skirmishes there back in April...
Plus the tank seemingly unprotected by infantry does ring like the more early Russian tactics... not that they aren't doing it now, but to a lesser degree...
It’s pretty awful seeing peoples homes, an entire neighborhood where I bet the most war they had before this was over someone not mowing the lawn enough, then into an actual war zone..
First thing I thought of was that's how my neighborhood would look if some random tank was roaming around shooting shit. Fuck these guys and fuck Putin.
It looks like the tank is targeting hideouts/ engaging defenders. And it isn’t surprising that a town looks destroyed after a battle was fought there with determined defenders.
At 20 seconds in you can see a cat or dog run out of one of the houses at the bottom of the screen that the tank starts aiming at.
Terrifying as this is for humans, feel bad for all the animals suffering these barrages
It’s been interesting seeing the beginning videos of the war up till now. It was suburban housing, still up, looking like what’s right out my window in California. Easy to sympathize, you know? And now these places are just gone and I don’t know what culmination of emotions are in me for it but I feel sick to my stomach
I know this is not the place for such comment but holly fuck! Look what russians did to my country!
How many people they killed and how much terror they brought
Imagine using tanks in a urban environment with no infantry support and not even having a tank wingman. I guess that's what you get with a conscript army.
Second half music is: [Chico & Qatoshi - Допоможе ЗСУ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpS56Jf5hI0)
Lyrics: [Genius Lyrics via Google Translate](https://genius-com.translate.goog/Chico-and-qatoshi-help-afu-lyrics?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
Song was made during this war.
r/instantkarma. Hopefully the crew got smoked too. Fuckers were just shelling random houses point blank before casually leaving probably to re-arm before killing more civilians
This is what genocide looks like by the way. This kind of footage is not isolated. This tank has no military mission. He is basically destroying habitable space, as Russia's goal is to wreck Ukraine. This serves multiple purposes among these: making Ukraine less attractive for EU and NATO membership and of course destroying the Ukrainian people by murder, displacement and economical destruction.
This village looks completely destroyed. Anyone knows the location?
Outskirts of Maryinka
bit suicidal a lone tank running amok right in front of 8 year old front lines?
The video looks put together, but looks like there was UA resistance there that this tank was trying to mop up without knowing one of them had anti tank weapons.
Put together? Not sure what you mean but... From start to finish, each change of perspective identifies a feature seen in the next frame. It's all one trip just showing turning corners and firing.
…because using 60 year old tanks vs a modern military is a smrt move. 11/10 good job Russia somewhere Sun Tzu is smiling
Modern AT's can destroy modern tanks as well, also western tanks. It might be that for the crew a T64 is even saver in being hit than a T90 (without APS)
Tyvm
Russian "liberation" - who the fuck would ever want that after seeing this Or any number of other brutal military actions against civilians by them and the USSR
Well they called them nazis. Once you say that it's ok to just obliterate anything in your path. It's in the rule book.
The fact that they are using main guns against persons is already a breach of Geneva conventions
>who the fuck would ever want that after seeing this Russians. This is probably an improvement over how many of them lived back in the far east of Russia. For instance, I'd imagine at least some of those homes still have toilet bowls.
I'm 90% sure they still use outhouses in most vilages of ex USSR countries of Eastern Europe. Source: grew up in one of those villages
It's sad that those are people's homes. People who don't have anything to do with politics.
Politics? This isn't politics. Try fucking war crimes!
"War is the continuation of politics by other means" Carl von Clausewitz
"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived." - Jean Rasczak
I disagree with the part that says "all authorities derive from violence", don't you? For example, an ancient master in painting has authority over his young students. And violece is not involved at all there.
It's Starship Troopers, a movie about space fascists. Which apparently confused a lot of people when it first came out because they thought it was going to be an action movie and they ended up getting political commentary disguised as satire disguised as an action movie. That's why it had such a mixed reception but became a cult classic. Good overview [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkEdyq3UE5M) if you're interested.
politics is making decisions. Starting a war and waging it is most certainly a decision and thus politics.
Isn't politics a little more specific than that? For example, when a dog decides to eat an orange instead of an apple, I don't think we should say it's making politics. I'm not saying wars aren't a politics thing tho.
I mean I get what you're saying, but "it was just politics" doesn't play real well when your village gets destroyed by Putin.
Politics is an extension of what the people want. Politics does not control the people, people control the politics. What you are watching is the desire of the Russian people. This can be stopped if the Russian people desired for it to stop.
As a political science graduate: no, that is not how it works. Not at all. Even in the most democratic political systems that currently exist, 'the people' do not 'control' politics. They influence them, and this influence is in many cases insufficient to determine policy outcomes. For instance, American politicians have launched many foreign military interventions that the people had little to no interest in. If the decision to invade was simply up to the people, most of these interventions wouldn't have happened. But their influence on the democratic system was insufficient to steer American foreign policy in these instances. In a much less democratic system like Russia (which is essentially a fascist autocracy), the notion that the people control politics is laughable.
No, it can't. The people of Russia have no control over their politicians. This is what a corrupted political system looks like.
Russian army is Russian people. You can't fight a war without an army. Enough Russian people want this to fight a war. You can cry propaganda or just following orders, but that doesn't change the reality that the Russian army is Russian people.
Lol, Russians are paying taxes for Putin, fighting for Putin, not protesting against Putin, etc. Not all of them, but the vast majority. There are always choices.
Ultimately, the people always have control over a government. Ask Nicolae Ceaușescu, Muammar Gaddafi, or Benito Mussolini. But I agree that it's rather indirect control, and things have to be desperate before a popular uprising will happen, let alone succeed. Life for ordinary Russians seems to be not very bad right now, so they have no motivation to risk their lives challenging the government's authority. Russia is a net food exporter and net energy exporter, so they are unlikely to go cold or hungry, which are frequently the "final straws".
It reminds me of those aftermath pictures of tornadoes that go straight through little midwest towns
So these tanks just roam around by themselves shooting at whatever ?
Living that GTA life
Hey Niko, it’s Roman, let’s go tanking!
[for the last time Roman I don’t want to go fucking bowling!](https://youtu.be/a1nsBwLqLTE)
Yes Russians seem to have this theory that tanks don't need infantry support. It never seems to work very well for them but they try try again.
I can’t (but kinda can) believe they still don’t give their tanks proper support. Like they even changed their tactics as a whole in the east and are “succeeding” but they just refuse to support the tanks.
From what I've heard, they just dont have the infantry. IIRC the "standing" army is supposed to man the tanks and in case of war, the necessary infantry-support would be drawn from the general draft. But since Russia hasnt declared it a war, or started a draft, they just dont have enough Infantry available
Even if they have the bodies to fill the infantry ranks on paper, those conscripts are not magically and instantly going to be capable of performing combined arms operations. It’s not rocket science, but it’s not exactly easy either. E: ranks! Not tanks! Sorry
Nor the motivation and proper training for conscripts to prowl through ruins for Ukrainians that are more than willing to kill them.
When you have old people saying they will take their shotgun to the Russians, knowing it won’t work, just to distract the invaders for a moment to let the frontline infantry an opportunity to attack, you have a steel in the populace that no army on the planet could defeat, short of just executing a mass genocide.
>still don’t give their tanks proper support While they probably havent changed much, it's worth noting this video is probably ancient, look at the lack of leaves on the trees, this vid is probably from early in the war.
They might not have the numbers.
They probably don't Perun did a good video where he outlined Russian man power requirements and showed (fairly conclusively IMO) That they don't have the bodies to man all the vehicles and provide infantry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKewF8_SiIs
Perun is the man.
He is the way.
Dude, I never heard of this man befor, but I just sat through his entire video. Very well thought out and explained.
This is the actual answer.
It's possible that they have so many tanks, that they see them as disposable, especially the old variants.
Tanks may be disposable, but skilled and effective tank crews are not
If you cared about resource management, sure. But to Russia, everything and everyone is disposable.
Ukraine should just make some sort of standing offer to all Russian AF members to desert (e.g., $1,000 + 3-months free lodging + citizenship once they’ve proven they’re not an infiltrator) and/or a tiered system that pays more for elite soldiers and ones w/valuable intel (both of which they would be required to authenticate). What a coup it would be to get even a quarter of some SOF unit to defect to Ukraine.
Not a good time to be a tank crew
Said the 21st century.
i dont think they take the t-64 for fun, dependent on which report you read, these are either their last tanks, or just a gift to the reserve for their own free tactical use. The battlefield is saturated with modern anti tank weapons. These tanks aren't build to fight against a modern army. So, for me its really puzzling how to interprete the use of them. In a perfect russian world, russian soldiers wouldn't have to use these. Next thing is, that once you introduce these into the battlefield, you'll require repair teams that are able to work on this system.
Maybe they’re powered by roomba technology. Just sort of scoot around until they get blown up.
You could add an omnidirectional APS and do a good job of dragging any tank into the 21st century. It just seems like no one has fielded such a system.
Hilarious russia is using 60 year old tanks.
The Abrams is 40 years old by now... Modern tanks are prohibitively expensive to build and maintain.
Yes but the abrams is retrofitted MUCH better than this. The abrams has depleted uranium armor, trophy system, computer for aiming, etc.
The point is that tanks are old because new tanks are expensive. The US spends more money on thr military than russias GDP. So pointing out that russia is using 60 year old tanks is kind of moot.
I think it's also the fact that they rolled in with modern T72s, T80s, T90s, even some of the modern T90 packages. Now they have to bring in T64s. The "old" thing itself is kind of weak but relevant considering they have to use those now.
>I can’t (but kinda can) believe they still don’t give their tanks proper support. I love that do not do this!
The only thing they changed in Severodonetsk is that they're throwing more artillery and infantry at the city than before. The tactics are the same, it's just a bit more effective with the numbers they're committing to the effort.
Would be so sweet if Ukraine had access to a nice bit of PGM tech to take out clusters of armoured vehicles... I'm not quite at Polish levels yet, but the more I hear about Russians shelling towns (and their populations) to pieces, the more I want military intervention to put an end to their war crimes.
Ah the old soviet idea of "quantity has it's own type of quality"
There is not enough infantry available, in parts due to conscious choices on forces structure, this being a "special operation" and casualties. https://warontherocks.com/2022/06/not-built-for-purpose-the-russian-militarys-ill-fated-force-design/
They probably don't have enough infantry to support the tank rather than chosing not to do it
The infantry can’t cover and clear and hold the entire area from which modern ATGMs like the Jav can engage. The range is too long and the area far too big.
That tank had some support. Video shows some Russians crawling beside the nearby houses. But, they can't expand enough of that infantry cover with just one squad of men like in the video.
> yes Russians seem to have this theory that tanks don’t need infantry support. Shit even I know this from playing Battlefield games online. Especially on breakthrough, You can’t just spawn in a tank and drive to an objective that’s heavily defended alone. You’re not gonna last long and you’re just fucking your team over by losing whatever force multiplier you had. Basically my strategy was to let about 5 teammates go forward to draw out the enemy and locate where most of the fire was coming from and then launch a round in that direction. Move forward, rinse and repeat.
I mean a javelin can only penetrate like 500mm of RHA. Your T64 has like 20mm of RHA on the top, so as long as your skin is as strong as 48cm (19 inches) of steel you will be fine. What could go wrong?
Just for reference because people don't realize how much steel that is, a 1 foot square plate of AR500 steel 19" thick would be 790 pounds/ roughly 4000kg m^2.
OP's mom should be safe then
That's the craziest thing to me about the armored combat Ukraine. I've fought in Iraq on M1s, so I have a bit of perspective on what it's actually like to operate a tank in combat but at the same time I understand Ukraine is a totally different animal. Like we were fighting a bunch of poorly armed insurgent goons and we still wouldn't roll out a tank alone like that. There was *always* infantry, a Bradley or another tank nearby to support and help watch your back. Granted, we often kept the tanks at the FOB and rolled wheels, and the insurgents didn't have even close to the AT capability the Ukrainians have, but still. Russia's tank tactics just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the infantry nearby, or the videos aren't showing the other tank in their platoon 400m away in the tree line? Maybe the grunts are in the buildings nearby out of view? I don't know, but these tanks *never* seem to have any kind of friendly support of any kind. Or I suppose maybe we aren't seeing videos when they do have actual support and an ATGM team gets shooed off or smoked before they can fire? From what I can see though, these guys don't set these tankers up for success. Assuming that's the case, it absolutely blows my mind that Russia has not learned from their mistakes here. They need to keep these tanks back with the grunts and other vehicles so they can push up together and watch carefully for Ukrainian ATGM teams. Like how haven't they figured this shit out by now? Is the fact that they are losing T-90s like nothing and that they're having to roll out T-fucking-62s not evidence enough their TTPs are woefully lacking? I don't know if it's sheer incompetence, command's complete disregard for minimizing friendly casualties or some combination of both. My peanut Westerner tanker brain just cannot figure this shit out. It's like their commanders are sitting there "Oleg, why are we losing so many tanks?" "Hmm, I don't know Dmitry, let's keep doing what we're doing and see if something changes."
> "Oleg, why are we losing so many tanks?" "Hmm, I don't know Dmitry, let's keep doing what we're doing and see if something changes." [Literally the Zap Brannigan stratergy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF3g4Ua5e7k&ab_channel=irasaiger). Just keep sending stuff and hope the Ukranians run out of AT
Kif, show them the medal I won.
I think their training just sucks so bad, their infantry/tanks/etc. wouldn't know how to effectively work together and support each other even if they did try to keep them together. They're basically taking anybody they can convince to sign a contract to join the fight, and shipping them to Ukraine as fast as they can. Their soldiers are probably barely having enough training time to learn how to use their basic firearms, much less any sort of combined ops tactics.
just look what they did in mariupol, they shot into every room to make sure there is no hospitable place left. Needless to say the civilian death toll is staggering
Not likely in this video I'd say. More likely this tank was called up to destroy certain houses identified as fighting positions. Infantry engages or observes, sees where the enemy likely is, calls up the tank and directs it to fire into these buildings. Tank fires off a few rounds and retreats, hopefully before any enemy anti-tank can move into position to take it out. I would assume that the guy in dark attire seen moving up closer to the tank on the left side of the screen is a Russian soldier. Also at 0:28 - 0:32 between the tank and building, you can see what I assume is a group of Russian infantry moving up after the tank is done destroying the positions and retreats.
This guy urban warfares
certain houses all houses
Yes because Russians can’t follow simple tank tactics and that’s why they are all getting slaughtered like pigs.
> why they are all getting slaughtered like pigs I too, am so glad to see Ukraine's amazing successes in repelling Russia. Every single day, they are being pushed back to where they came from. Slava Ukraini.
Well they are there to destroy civilian structures, It's genocide not war.
Even if the enemy has turned the village into a stronghold and is actively shooting at you? In that case the US army might have a lot of explaining to do... If their mission was to "destroy civilian structures" I can assure you they have much more effective ways of leveling villages. Or entire cities, for that matter.
> Even if the enemy has turned the village into a stronghold and is actively shooting at you? It's where they fucking live. Russia invaded.
Then what is their mission?
To push the enemy out of that village. Or as the US army would put it, to liberate the hell out of that village.
You think it makes more sense that their mission was to clear out a village that the enemy had fortified "into a stronghold" and they decided to carry out this mission using *exactly one tank*?
Why?
if you invade a country don't be surprised if the country resists. Do you expect them to have lines of soldiers waiting for a set battle out in a field like the napoleonic era? Don't be fucking stupid
at 00:28 you can see a couple of foot soldiers walking close to the tank, while it fires. I wonder how it feels, standing that close to a firing tank.
WHAT!?!??
You have enemies entrenched in between houses, so I think it's obvious he may be targeting hideouts.
whole village is just hideouts apparently
Begining to 0:10 you can see infantry near it. Also, when there's only ruins everywhere you cannot expect a 360 coverage h24.
[https://twitter.com/Blue\_Sauron/status/1539939352230371329](https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1539939352230371329) Here you can see a few more seconds after the hit. Looks like a big hole near the turret, looks like oil on the street, looks like it's not going anywhere.
The guy getting out and running away suggests the tank is now a stationary monument to stupid.
This could be something different than Javelin, the video quality was good, we should have able to see the missile hitting the tank but we did not, also the attack was from the rear, I know Javelin can do top and direct attacks but I suppose troops will use top attack in this environment
This was not a Javelin. Even in top-down you would see it coming in. Anyway, it's an impossible hit from far away due to all the buildings. You need line of sight at some point. It also looks like it's coming from behind (or above), where the tank came from. This was probably an artillery shell, cause there is no tank visible anywhere to make the hit from behind. Source: former anti-tank infantryman. I was trained on the Javelin's predecessor, the M-47 Dragon.
Out of curiosity, how was the Dragon to work with?
It was alright, but I have no comparison since it's the only system I've used. Since it's an older system, its range was much shorter and it was less powerful than the Javelin. We practiced with an invisible IR beam that you could point at reflectors on a vehicle to see if you'd hit. There was a simulator tube that contained a weight that swung forward inside the tube to simulate recoil. That thing weighed like 25kg vs. the 14kg of the real weapon or even less for a targeting IR device + empty tube. Infantry gear + rifle + 25kg simulator = only moderately fun in the field. It was SACLOS, not fire-and-forget, so you had to sit under it until it hit.
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
No prob.
The shortest distance from the edge of the video to the tank is from the top, so I think it's sort of evidence of a top down attack? Either that or a tank shell.
Most likely, there's no real reason why you wouldn't use top-down in a situation such as this one where the tank is in the open and there are no high buildings (assuming you're in range for both modes)
I was trying to figure out how they threaded a javelin through all those telephone poles and trees
Top down dude, top down.
to me it almost looks like a mine
Explosion was toward the back. Unless that mine is on 56k, it would blow up the moment he drives on it.
Amazing how these Russian tanks are always alone. Granted we don’t know what the Ukrainians are doing but there always seems to be a alone
I think it is partially selection bias. The tanks traveling alone are much more likely to be picked off and end up here than the ones with adequate infantry support. Still feels like way too many lone tanks.
If an Abrams got picked off like this with no support, whoever was in charge would be facing severe consequences for allowing it to happen. Goes to show the difference between western and Russian armies is that the Russians really don’t care if a few of their tanks and crews get smoked out in the middle of nowhere
Yeah but as far as I know the T64s aren't used by the Russian army but by the Lugansk and Donetsk militias
Yeah, that's what I thought. Would like to see a drone video of them being supported by ground infantry just to see how they deal with one
I do remember seeing a line of tanks with infantry support. Ukrainians fired super danger close to get a bunch of shots off with maximum accuracy. Russian infantry seemed to think it was drone and tries to scatter? Mmyea.
Just an fyi, and yes I'm being pedantic, "danger close" is used for artillery strikes that are close to friendlies (i think for US M777 the distance under which it's considered "danger close" is 600m and <200m is basically calling arty on your own position but I'm not sure if those are the correct specific figures)
Danger close generally describes the minimum safe distance that any weapon system is used near friendlies. In the US at least, the term is used this way commonly, from small to large HE. E: typo
"Danger close" is used for any type of munition. It simply means that said munition is being deployed against the enemy while they are in close enough proximity to friendly forces that they themselves could be hit by those munitions. An A-10 30mm gun run could require a danger close designation too.
There seems to be infantry lurking very very close to the tank, from 20 seconds you can see someone walking behind the house middle left hand side of the frame. Could be Russian Infantry guarding the back of the tank. Or could be Ukrainian Infantry stalking the tank. Edit: At 30 seconds the tank drives right past some infantry out in the open.
at 7 sec you can see infantry moving up on left/middle side of screen, albeit still behind the line of advance of the tank.
while this is definitly true I just wonder how much an infantery screen helps you in this flat open land when the javelin or stugna-p has a range of 5km. What is the infantery supposed to do against that threat?
Russia might equip them with butterfly nets?
What a “mental” *ahem* image, Doom Tag maybe, or call it the game of Coup-Coup (pronounced coo-coo) from the concept of counting coup, where the coolest thing a warrior can do is touch an armed enemy with your hand.
From previous videos, they should’ve ride on top of it for thickening the tank’s armor
In Russia, you protect armor!
My understanding is that this is one of the fundamental issues of tanks nowadays. I think I've heard of combined arms groups trying to use recon drones on the extreme ranges to try to detect enemy infantry, and then use suppressing fire on them... but yeah 5 km is a large stretch.
> What is the infantery supposed to do against that threat? Identify and return fire at the ATGM launcher, or pose such a threat of doing so that the ATGM launcher is afraid of taking a shot, at least without the ability to shoot and scoot. Without the infantry cover, it's a turkey shoot. With infantry cover, the ATGM guys have to be very very careful about how and where and when they take their shot.
The tank seems to be randomly firing into civilian structures, so maybe the infantry are there to “clean up” after the tank?
When you say flat, open land, do you mean no buildings? I know most are wrecked, but I wouldn't say this is both flat and open.
Just because you don't see any soldiers doesn't mean there aren't any. In a house-to-house fighting environment, soldiers are most likely going to be sitting in a house.
This one isn't alone. Far from it. There's a few people moving up behind the tank starting some 5 seconds in, on the left side. And between 0.29 and 0.31 there are at least 3 people visible against the white building right next to the tank. You probably need to watch it on a bigger screen.
Alone & targeting civilian buildings. Serves him right
A T64 getting destroyed by a javelin. This timeline is weird.
right? should be more like t64 gets destroyed by a dragon II
The projectile was way too fast to be a javelin missile, likely another tank.
yeah, i wonder how much a t-64 costs currently. A shot of a tank is definitely more cost effective than a javelin in this case. Another interesting point is, if this was a tank shot, it implies tank battles, which are suprisingly rare (at least thats what commentators pointed out). T64 is clearly worse for tank vs tank battles and more appropriate for supporting infantry and attacking defensive positions/defending positions.
A T-64 doesn't have a cost anymore, just a stockpile. They stopped being produced in 1987. Russia built 13,000 but obviously will not have them all anymore. Since they are using up backroom garbage the only real loss is the tank crew and the money invested shipping the tank to Ukraine. Crews are likely going to be an issue long before money/tanks becomes one. Russia already has notable manpower shortages.
Fratricide would be both funnier and sadder...
Normally hate the music but fucking into this when the beat drops!! Haha!
No clue why they felt like they had to insert sniper fire to mimic the tank shooting
Yea, and the sound comes before the flash. Sheesh!
Close up top view of the tank after the hit and after the crew had bailed: [https://i.gyazo.com/0fd7de7382d8ff2c33cbca9bc9bfb74a.jpg](https://i.gyazo.com/0fd7de7382d8ff2c33cbca9bc9bfb74a.jpg) The tank was hit in the (lower?) back body. The motor was taken out but no secondary fires or explosions took place. There's no way this was done by a Javelin, otherwise the tank would have suffered much more damage. Plus the point of impact is unlikely for a Javelin, even at short distance and even in direct fire mode (Javelin climbs up to 60m, even in direct fire mode). Looking at the video I got to say that I don't know what caused this. I can't make out any projectile homing in on the tank. Maybe a remotely triggered IED or EFP? Maybe some RPG that was used at too short distance so the warhead didn't arm? That would explain the light damage and the lack of a smoke trail.
I am with you. Definitely not any type of missile like a javelin. My money is on a lucky artillery shot or IED. A mine wouldn't blast up through the center, but an IED could.
they've taken out their last house.
As a museum director, this makes my heart bleed.
Looks like the Russians will have to start bringing out the T55's.
You misspelled t34
Haha they actually might be better with the smaller silhouette.
Russian strategy - Take 1960's technology to blindfire every building in the town with high explosives. Ukraine strategy - Take 1990's-2020's technology to track the tank via UAV, and destroy it with one guided missile.
Russia had new precision tech, just turns out to be vapor ware because it either doesn’t work well or the funds for it have been stolen.
So you're saying they didn't have the new precision tech
Well, they have models of it for parades and trade shows…
Why is the tank alone? why no smoke on retreat? so many questions.
T-64 means it was probably used by separatist forces. I could imagine they're also spread very thin and not equipped well enough to operate in large numbers per engagment.
Look at the insane destruction of the town - I hope the crew all died painfully and now charred BBQ. You can't possibly have any sympathy for these monsters.
The longer video linked above shows the crew bailing out. Hatches are all open in the pics later too. Assume they all survived.
The ones that bailed out probably survived yes
Tanks have so much more survivability than people have given them credit for to be honest. In a meat grinder like this I’m thinking a lot of soldiers are much more willing to being in a heavy armoured vehicle then when they take what seems like a big hit they just bail out and run, doesn’t matter save yourself lol no wonder some tanks have changed sides twice or even more 😂 Before I thought other than a modern abrams with blast panels only a mad man would want to be a tanker, I associated beings tanker with burning to death horribly.
>Assume they all survived. fuck :(
It's okay, hopefully they survived short-term but with fatal injuries.
It seems hard to believe that anyone could support the Russians but I guess their propaganda works on a captive audience. I am not making excuses for them far from it. Anyone under 50 should be able to download VPN and watch real news instead of Putin news network.
It works on all matter of stupid people. Most hungarians support them
If I could bet and there was a number, most people outside the west are either "Pro Putin" in this invasion or simply don't care
Vegetation looks like April to me.
...mmh, does seem right, someone geolocated it to the outskirts of Marinka, near Donetsk, and there were skirmishes there back in April... Plus the tank seemingly unprotected by infantry does ring like the more early Russian tactics... not that they aren't doing it now, but to a lesser degree...
It’s pretty awful seeing peoples homes, an entire neighborhood where I bet the most war they had before this was over someone not mowing the lawn enough, then into an actual war zone..
Wow Russia really denazified that village…
Operation Fuck Around and Find Out
First thing I thought of was that's how my neighborhood would look if some random tank was roaming around shooting shit. Fuck these guys and fuck Putin.
It looks like the tank is targeting hideouts/ engaging defenders. And it isn’t surprising that a town looks destroyed after a battle was fought there with determined defenders.
At 20 seconds in you can see a cat or dog run out of one of the houses at the bottom of the screen that the tank starts aiming at. Terrifying as this is for humans, feel bad for all the animals suffering these barrages
Cat gets urban combat and small group tactics better than the Russians
Great. How can we know this is Javelin?
That's what the unit claimed they used, but no one can confirm it just by looking at the video.
I'm seeing the same video on Telegram claiming the unit shot it with a Ukrainian T-64.
I swear I've looked everywhere and I still don't see the infantry. Y'alls eyes must be a lot better than my eyes.
Gotta be some seriously hard techno emerging from Ukraine after this.
The cat taking shelter at 0:20, on the bottom of the screen :'(
It’s been interesting seeing the beginning videos of the war up till now. It was suburban housing, still up, looking like what’s right out my window in California. Easy to sympathize, you know? And now these places are just gone and I don’t know what culmination of emotions are in me for it but I feel sick to my stomach
I know this is not the place for such comment but holly fuck! Look what russians did to my country! How many people they killed and how much terror they brought
I know this sub dislikes the videos set to music, however I always discover good new music from these. Does anyone know what this song is?
Can’t even see the javelin hit the tank it’s coming in so fast.
Fucking tank is shooting at civilian homes. Fuck Putin.
Uncle Sam would be proud of this one. Slava Ukraini!
Imagine using tanks in a urban environment with no infantry support and not even having a tank wingman. I guess that's what you get with a conscript army.
I have zero idea of what the lyrics are but any music set to the background of a Russian tank getting javalined is always a bop.
[удалено]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hej_Soko%C5%82y
Thanks. I keep hearing this catchy banger. And after reading the lyrics it's a perfect national pride/positive propaganda song for the situation.
Second half music is: [Chico & Qatoshi - Допоможе ЗСУ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpS56Jf5hI0) Lyrics: [Genius Lyrics via Google Translate](https://genius-com.translate.goog/Chico-and-qatoshi-help-afu-lyrics?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc) Song was made during this war.
r/instantkarma. Hopefully the crew got smoked too. Fuckers were just shelling random houses point blank before casually leaving probably to re-arm before killing more civilians
Fucking Russia. NATO should go in and run them out.
And people said all the hours I spent driving around cities in warthunder isn’t realistic, checkmate non believers
No infantry support...Damn Russia really is dumb
One minute you’re a badass in a tank blowing the hell out of a small village. Then a badass with a javelin blows the hell out of your tank.
This is what genocide looks like by the way. This kind of footage is not isolated. This tank has no military mission. He is basically destroying habitable space, as Russia's goal is to wreck Ukraine. This serves multiple purposes among these: making Ukraine less attractive for EU and NATO membership and of course destroying the Ukrainian people by murder, displacement and economical destruction.
song pls it kinda slaps
[Допоможе ЗСУ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BkkiytsKY&ab_channel=Chico-Topic) is the second song, don't know the first one.