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My three most likely scenarios: 1) she told him during Gazebo refraction period 2) he found out via Edwina during the courting period, where I absolutely believe he spent much of his time asking about Kate 3) he asked Mary. He was speaking to her right before the ep 8 dance, so it would align to the timing


There was a theory I read months ago that there was a cut scene during the Pall Mall game. That Mary or Edwina yell it at Kate in shock or horror as Anthony and Kate come back with mud everywhere. It’s also how Eloise realized that Anthony/Kate where near Edmonds grave.


I think it's pretty obvious. At least for me. That when he would chat to edwina. He would be finding ways to bring kate into the coversation. Edwina in S2 would bring up kate. We see this when she tells the sheffields about kate loving hunting. We also see in E3 when anthony is staring at kate at dinner and daphne is beside him watching. That edwina tells anthony that kate was a handful as a child. Anthony replies staring at kate "hmm i can imagine" or "hmm i'll bet" So there's a lot of implication that edwina would talk about kate in conversation. And anthony would then fish further for more information under the guise he wants to know more about the sharma family. But actually wants to know more about kate. And then he'd store that information because everything kate fascinates him. 🙂


I agree with this. Edwina thought Kate and Anthony were not getting along. Edwina likely tried talking up her sister to Anthony, much like she attempted to do with the Sheffields at dinner. She wanted Kate and Anthony to stop sparring- that’s why she kept pushing them together (the hunt, dancing together). She likely told Anthony a lot about their life in India.


I think it’s obvious he did some research on the Sharmas and one of the first things he would have learned was her actual name. Like this is the same guy who had a ledger full of names of potential brides and it included their hobbies.


I think he was fascinated by her from their first meeting in the park and probably fished for information. And by fished, I mean probably got someone else to do the work. I highly doubt, someone portrayed as busy as he is and so absorbed in his duties, would have time to screen the eligible ladies, slim the list down to those best positioned to be Viscountess and then find out their interests 🤣


I think it was from chatting with Edwina. Cause she tells Kate how he asked about the family.


A bit off topic but Kathani is such a beautiful name. I’m literally obsessed with it😍


Me too. It’s now on my list of potential daughter names. 🥰


I’ve definitely already decided to name my daughter that. 😂😂🥺


Me too - such a strong and beautiful name!


Maybe they signed a guest list book or church book or something. He could have also arranged out of sight/off camera for a special license to get married to her and since she was announced at court with her sister it wouldn’t be hard at all to get access to those files. Violet and Lady Danbury would know too.


Yeah, I kind of assumed something like this, or her name appears in a “ton directory” or address book. Or it’s printed on a calling card.




My fav part of this pic is Kate smiling while kissing him 😍


I think he talked to Lady Mary before he approached Kate at the Featherington Ball for the Wrecking Ball dance That scene seemed to be cut Anthony is walking away from Lady Mary toward Kate Lady D and Violet are also nearby I think Anthony told them he wishes to propose and heard from Lady Mary that Kate was upset that he did not visit. Perhaps that she thinks he only asked her to marry him out of duty and that she does not think he loves her. Also that Kate sees herself as unworthy of love and that Anthony should be clear that he loves her if he wants her to accept and not leave for India And that her name is Kathani


It is quite bizarre to show Anthony and Mary talking at the ball but not actually show the scene. I also thought he was asking for permission to propose, but then it doesn’t fully track when he says they should keep their distance.


I agree. I think that they probably played around with and filmed various scenarios and thus had the footage, but in the final cut Anthony was truly floored that Kate loved him. So I don't think there is even subtext that Mary encouraged him in any way. I didn't even notice that he was even near Mary until I saw it mentioned here, so they didn't make a particularly purposeful or intentional edit for it, so I personally don't view whatever interaction that was as useful canon at the moment. I mean I think Anthony was talking to Fife too, but I think that it was just socializing. Also, and this is probably just me, but I don't really care for the idea of Mary imparting any "permission" for Kate's hand, and not just because of the parentification situation either. I just think that Kate is too old and has taken on too much responsibility and has had to be the family leader for way to long for her to be seen in a similar way to a teenage debutante. She is a mature woman and she is Anthony's equal. She, and she alone, should have say if she marries or not. Maybe that is not fully 19th century accurate, but Bridgerton does not do 100% 19th century accuracy with Kanthony. The production may or may not have played with a conversation with Mary, but whatever it was they decided not to lean into that direction. Anthony was prepared to endanger both families for that dance. He was expecting to not even "allow" his love. He had already been intimate with Kate. I just don't see it making sense for him to want to involve Mary at all in those circumstances. It was just between him and Kate.


Anthony uses the words to Kate after his declaration of love to her in the garden “You do not have to accept it Or embrace it Or even allow it “ Kate does tell Mary before the Ball she could not allow Anthony to propose I also don’t think Anthony looked particularly surprised when Kate proclaimed her love. He looked joyful IMHO that she verbalized her feelings for him. While his instincts told him she cared, he was also aware of the two of them, that she would be harder to break in accepting his love for her, and verbalizing her own love for him. He knew that she loved Edwina and that would be a major obstacle. In fact he said to her in the garden “You love your family dearly” which I think is subtext for your love for your family is part of why you are denying your feelings for me. Anthony did not know that Edwina had just paved the way for Kate to be the feeling brave sister she knew , and follow her heart because that dialog between Kate and Edwina on the dance floor was a conversation occurring simultaneously with the one Anthony was having with Ladies V, M and D in another part of the Ballroom I also think the Queen running interference as she sees the beauty of their true love is a major step forward in removing the obstacles in their path. In the garden Kate says to Anthony on response to his question about her leaving or returning to India, and the Queen herself has saved our families from utter ruin. That is another signal of encouragement to him that even though as they say they both love their families dearly, there is the possibility for them to love both their families and each other as well. It offers them hope. It is not an “either or” … instead it is an “and 🥰”


I took that to mean that he has been told Go outside and ask her to join you there and then propose But don’t do anything as yet in view of the Ton till Lady D and Violet have had a chance to make a plan and dribble the news


Yes thats exactly why I didnt think it was plausible.


I did notice anthony with mary before he rounded the ballroom to kate. But i took it as anthony greeting mary and nothing more. I don't think mary would have told him what kate said to her in her bedroom. I think he greeted mary and mentioned kate being ok. But that was all it was. He was still fearful of kate rejecting him again. And even though he had that compulsion to be near her. He didn't expect reciprocation but had a sliver of hope that she might change her mind. I just feel the way he approached her to tell her he was heading outside and they should keep their distance with the ton watching. Well in anthony's insecure way. It was again a question mark and an opening for kate to be vulnerable with him. Anthony said that but was hoping that she would not agree and open up to him. Which she did. She got playful. But it was a challenge/bait for anthony to rise to. Which he does. They play a word game about kate needing to be steadied after her injury and anthony would be the one to help her. But it was their vulnerable way to once more be together. But the way JB plays that scene and the one in the garden. He offers his love unconditionally to her because he believes her marriage rejection means she chooses india. He doesn't have any belief that will change but no matter how fearful he is in his vulnerability. He puts himself fully out there expecting nothing in return. He gives kate a person who makes it clear to her that she can be truly loved by him without having to earn it like kate believes that love is. It's a very scary notion for anthony as there is no safety net anymore. He's gone from the question marks and double meanings e.g. "i do not believe that is true" "would the 2 of us being compromised and forced to marry be something that you would want?" etc, out of fear of being the only one to signal their attraction/desire, to out and out declarations of love expecting and accepting nothing. He simply tells her he loves her because if she's going to leave him. She's going to leave him with the knowledge that he is in love with her. That he wants to marry her for love not duty and that he's not afraid to face that now. It spills out of him because it can't not anymore. And because the wrecking ball dance was that final moment where they chose each other (desire) in front of the ton (duty) the final moment where they were so wrapped up in each other that their walls shattered together and stayed down. Where they both realised that the other didn't want to say goodbye. Didn't wanna let the other go. That dance gave anthony hope and courage to fight kate over india and to put the ball in her court. She needs to know that if she's leaving him. It won't be because he never admitted his love. It will be because she doesn't love him back. But he says "you do not have to allow it" not because of mary. It's symbolism of them being each other's mirror and him and his instinct being able to read her. Even when she denys and runs. He can read her. And As anthony says "but you must feel it in your heart. Because i do. I love you" somewhere beyond his fear and trauma instinct tells him she does feel it. Because she's his other half. But JB plays it as anthony being spun when she answers his love confession with her own. His facial acting is shock, relief, and happiness. And he says "you do not have to allow it or accept it. Knowing you you won't" because he at this point believes kate won't let him love her. He tells her when he proposes after her accident and she rejects it "you are running away" and that is what he believes. She has feelings for him but he's not enough to compromise her original plans = being independent and returning to india. At that moment he believes kate doesn't want marriage and babies. And loving her means that's what he wants. Kate to marry him have his children "a life that suits us both" it's not 2022. They can't just date/court forever. You court to be engaged to get married.


All this^^^! Fantastic posts in this thread!


If he wanted Lady Mary's permission, He would have asked for permission before the first proposal at Lady Danbury's house. Lady Mary didnt know that Anthony had proposed to Kate and Kate rejected. So its clear he didnt ask for permission. The scene may just be unplanned background improvisations. Just like Fife is behind Kate/Edwina and then shown chatting with Anthony just as Kate looks at him.


Think it was less about permission But asking for help and insights on what headspace Kate was in and if he has a chance at getting her to say yes The first proposal failed He had one last chance to get it right He also makes his declaration of love unconditional It could be that Mary gave him some insight into Kates view that love for her was transactional It would be surprising if Violet who told Anthony Do not lose her You cannot lose her Did not communicate with Lady D and M on the state of Anthony’s mind And got insights into where Kate was It would be surprising if Lady D, M and V did not get involved behind the scenes to help these young star crossed lovers to find their HEA


The more I think of it, the more I believe her name could’ve been printed in full on a [calling card](https://janeaustensworld.com/2007/05/21/the-etiquette-of-using-calling-cards/), like in the article I linked.


I think he knew her full name from the very beginning. But he only started using it when he felt ready to fully confess his feelings and admit them to himself. And I agree that by confessing his love to Kate he was ready for rejection. I think he didn't expect anything else at the time. But I don't agree that he would have followed her to India. Following someone who said "no" is creepy AF. Anthony is not a creep.


Kate was the maid of honor at the wedding and would have been listed on the marriage documents as the witness. He would have seen her full name there. Violet would have had an address book type ledger with full names, form of address and stupid info she learned about guests like X can’t be seated next to Y. If Anthony was curious enough, he could have looked.


I love this take. I had a similar headcanon that he got his hands on a ship manifest and maybe some other Entry paperwork because he couldn't help but learn more about her. But I really like how you took the scenario farther down the road! 😀


Anthony Bridgerton is as thorough with his research as Kathani Sharma( flashback to his rattling off details about Daphne’s suitors in S1). He definitely dug up all the information about the Sharmas very early on . I believe he started snooping right after he declares “ She is who I shall marry” at the Queens diamond ball. In the fencing scene , he already knows Kate’s age. At the races, he has already picked Dorset to distract Kate which is quite telling. Surprisingly Dorset has the information that Kate has travelled from Bombay, how did he find out if not from Anthony. His using the name right after the declaration of love goes to show that he has reached a stage where he actually understands Kate and is ready to be fully honest with her. Side notes: I don’t buy the theory that Edwina shared Kate’s real name with Anthony because she simply wouldn’t consider it something that is relevant to the Bridgertons. If you notice her communication strategy - there is a tendency to latch onto topics which she assumes will be of interest to the Bridgertons/Sheffields. She even admits to it after failing to get a proposal from the Viscount( I should have found out more about them, etc) Anthony : We are to leave for shooting Edwina: Do you know Kate is an excellent shot Lord Sheffield : our box at the Opera is gathering dust. Edwina : I do love the opera. kate introduced me to it. Lord Sheffield: We have an excellent stock of birds. Anthony: I do enjoy shooting Edwina : As does Kate. Anthony: It’s not quite so peaceful with my entire family in residence . Edwina:My sister and I were a handful growing up too.


This theory warmed my heart. I love our love for this show.


I think I want you to write a fanfic !


Thank you. I have written a few, though not on this specific scenario. Sharing the links [https://archiveofourown.org/works/39986628](https://archiveofourown.org/works/39986628) [https://archiveofourown.org/works/40087800](https://archiveofourown.org/works/40087800) [https://archiveofourown.org/works/40243608](https://archiveofourown.org/works/40243608)


He may have done reserach on the Sharma family and found out their Indian names? Or it was told to him by Mary or Edwina. We will never know sadly


i absolutely love this theory


Thank you. :-)


I feel like it’s far more simple. He’s the head of the house, it’s his job to know everything about his siblings marital prospects as we saw in daphnes season right? So why wouldn’t he dig on the entire family if he was planning to marry edwina? It’s fun to speculate that he was being sneaky or a cut scene but I honestly think it would’ve simply been “I am going to marry this girl, let me get info on the family I’m marrying into” which every family/head would do whether they’re getting married or the women theyre looking after/chaperoning


If you don’t make a fanfic about this bestie 😤


*sigh*Another question we might never find out...and it was probably filmed but they cut it( I think in the original script she tells him, early on). We could've at least had bts interviews of Jonny and Simone answering these important questions. 😔


My theory is simple. Its that they were in India for 6 months together and in her home country they call her by her real name. So after 6 months of hearing everyone refer to her as lady kathani or just Kathani from other friends and associates he naturally brought that name back with him. So I’m guessing that’s why he called her by her real name after the 6 month honey moon reveal


No, he called her that before they got married and went on honeymoon. He calls he that when he proposes to her for the second time and she accepts.


Omg you’re so right and I deserve to be downvoted to hell for that! I can’t believe I forgot the iconic “Is that a promise, kathani sharma?“ line 🙃