T O P

A majority of the people arrested for Capitol riot had a history of financial trouble

A majority of the people arrested for Capitol riot had a history of financial trouble

richardec

A majority of the people in the USA have financial trouble.


gurenkagurenda

So they do at least slightly address that: > The group’s bankruptcy rate — 18 percent — was nearly twice as high as that of the American public, The Post found. I really wish that we could establish journalism norms around contextualizing everything according to base rates. Just giving likelihood ratios like that in headlines instead of context-free "majority of people" statements would be a huge step forward.


MyBoyBernard

>18 percent — was nearly twice as high So the American public is bankrupt at a rate of like 9 or 10%?! That's crazy! I'm going to assume some of it are idiots who are the stereotypes from movies where they just get a credit card and can't plan financially past the next weekend. But there must also be a decent chunk that are born into perpetual poverty, unexpected life complications, or other shit luck. In any case, 9 or 10% sounds like a lot


OllaniusPius

According to [one study](https://www.thebalance.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729#:~:text=Medical%20bills%20are%20reported%20to,were%20caused%20by%20medical%20issues.), around 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues. Also in that link is the mention of another study wherein 9% of participants responded that they had filed bankruptcy because of medical expenses (and that was just a general survey of people on employer health coverage, not specifically looking at people that have filed bankruptcy).


Vivalyrian

That's fucked up. My country gave me a disability pension and wiped all my student debt when medical troubles came knocking and rendered me unable to work. Evil evil welfare state!


OllaniusPius

Truly vile! Here I'm able to exercise my free choice to go to any of a small handful of doctors that take my work insurance, except I won't because I'm terrified of getting medical bills because I don't know what they'll charge me for and neither the doctors nor the insurance are ever able/willing to tell me ahead of time! The wonders of privatized health care!


HypoTeris

Don’t you love that you have choices though? Granted, they are all crappy choices, but you have a freedom to chose anyway!


AsapEvaMadeMyChain

Gasp! What a terrible socialist country you live in!! Murica will always he #1 for eternity!!! What country do you live in? Just wondering not because I want to move there... just curious....


Rommie557

As someone who is part of that statistic, I can tell you for us was unexpected life complications. My husband (then fiance) and I moved states for a job offer he got. Two weeks after we uprooted our lives and I'm still looking for work, the company decides to downzise by 12%. Last guys in were the first guys out. So there we were, in a new state, with no friends or family, no support network, and no jobs. We had significant savings when we moved, but we ate through it very quickly with no income, and rent and bills to pay. We lived on savings and credit cards for three months while we looked for work, never succeeded in any meaningful way (I found a part time gig as a soda jerk for $8/hr), and had to move back to where we had left from, and take back our old, low paying jobs with a huge ball and chain of new, unplanned-for debt around our necks. Had he not been downsized so quickly, we would have been fine. Had we found jobs or called it quits 30 days sooner on the job hunts, we probably would have been fine. But the fact was, that little hiccup was enough to financially ruin us for years afterwards. We never did get our heads above water after that, and declared nearly a decade later, after much scraping and clawing to attempt to pay back our debts "on the up and up." I would be willing to bet many families going through bankruptcies are similar to ours. Having taken one financial misstep years ago, and fighting to get their heads above water again. Especially since 75% of Americans couldn't afford a $400 emergency *before* COVID.


sunlightonthewater

Ya, people say they don’t believe in luck until they get some hard luck. All of us are living under the illusion of stability and not much separates us from the really down trodden. It’s becoming very apparent that these days people are really running off luck and good or bad timing. I’m sorry for your troubles.


Rommie557

Hey, its all good! Declaring bankruptcy was the best think to ever happen to me, life is much easier now. If anything, I'd Ike to encourage others to consider it as an option. It really isn't the financial suicide that everyone makes it out to be. One year and a couple of secured credit cards later, and my credit score has actually *improved* from where it was before we declared. You're 100% right though; we are all on a verrrry tight wire, about to over balance and come crashing down at any given moment. Its an exceedingly delicate balance for a huge portion of western civilization.


sunlightonthewater

I’m glad that you have recovered then. May only soft landings await you.


Rommie557

Thank you, you're a kind soul. I wish the same for you.


[deleted]

Capitalism doesn't need an American middle class. The entirety of our prosperity was a fleeting coincidence.


sunlightonthewater

It was built on the middle class. Their dreams, expectations and willingness to support it. Those things are fleeting in the individual due to our life span, but shared in the consciousness of all humans. We have not outgrown the need for hierarchy or our impulse to flaunt things in order to attract a mate.


djenrikk91

LMAO for real, its sad


[deleted]

[удалено]


djenrikk91

what else can u do in the hell planet lmao its like a dark twisted monthy python skit


keninsd

Yup. And that majority knew better than to take up an invitation to an insurrection by a preening buffon.


policythwonk

I remember one thing that happened during the Arab Spring was that prices went up due to food shortages. Social upheaval is often unleashed because of a lack of basics. A Basic Income could help mitigate it.


smegko

If they'd had a basic income denominated in US dollars, food would have found its way there.


FireWireBestWire

Most wars have economic troubles preceeding them. Strange thing- when people can't eat they get angry


GershBinglander

I feel like they were also missing a basic education.


Conquestofbaguettes

A bunch of poor, uneducated, false conscious proles voting against their own interests and storming capitol hill in defense of their tyrant to keep power? Say it ain't so.


kylco

Most of them had the financial resources to fly to DC and stay in one of the hotels downtown, and the freedom and time to do it on a Wednesday. They weren't as poor as people might want to think.


raisinghellwithtrees

There were also people who paid for transportation for folks who couldn't afford it.


kylco

Sure. But let's not kid ourselves that this was a popular revolt driven by starvelings. They all showed up in swag on a cold day in DC, and I can thoroughly assure you they were not locals.


viper8472

Credit is a hell of a thing. Also having a bankruptcy doesn't mean people never go on trips.


kylco

Indeed not, but it's important to note that these are not *systematically impoverished* people; they're largely wealthy or employed people who suffered financial setbacks or were sideswiped by a society that's built entirely around profit. It's not an excuse for what they did and frankly only illuminates their general insulation from the consequences the rest of us tend to face. Instead of being radicalized in the direction of making society easier in the name of preventing catastrophic ruin like they suffered, they radicalized in the defense of the people who preyed on them in the first place.


Conquestofbaguettes

I would consider anyone making less than 25k a year, hell anyone under 35k "poor." And I'm not sure what your point is. False conscious prole is a false conscious prole.


Nit3fury

Hey neat I’m poor


Conquestofbaguettes

Majority of working class people are. The current placement of the "poverty line" is total fucking bullshit when you account for true cost of living. Wage stagnation. Inflation. Etc


therealzeroX

Trump resonated in the rust belt. Because of this. He promised jobs, he promised cutting red tape. Biden to meny seemed to offer the opposite with thing like the green new deal and environmental regulations. The reality is that most of these people still believe if you work hard you will prosper. When the reality is for most now days if you work hard you just die tired.


secondarycontrol

Well, [that's weird](https://www.forbes.com/sites/donnafuscaldo/2019/11/15/most-americans-struggling-financially-despite-the-strong-economy/?sh=3a1ad0424b6b), huh?


TJ_McWeaksauce

Before opening the article, I thought, "I guess that rich asshole who flew to Washington on a private jet is an exception." Nope. They mention her at the very top, and she's got serious financial problems, too. >Ryan remained defiant at first. She clashed with people who criticized her online. She told a Dallas TV station that she deserved a presidential pardon. > >Then Trump left for Florida. President Biden took office. And Ryan, at home in Texas, was left to wonder what to do with her two mini-goldendoodle dogs if she goes to prison. > >“Not one patriot is standing up for me,” Ryan said recently. “I’m a complete villain. I was down there based on what my president said. ‘Stop the steal.’ **Now I see that it was all over nothing. He was just having us down there for an ego boost. I was there for him.**” I was raised in New Jersey, so even as a kid, I heard plenty of stories about how Trump was a piece of shit. I've hated the dude for 20+ years, long before he ran for president, and long before he became president and showed us all just how fucked our country is. After all this time, I still find reasons to hate him more. This entire article is about how Donald's grievance politics resonated with a lot of people who have a long history of loss. He lied and manipulated people's fear of greater, country-wide loss—"The radical left are going to open our borders and let criminal immigrants in, they're going to take away your guns, they're going to take away your religion, and they're going to turn our country into a socialist hell!"—and used that fear to his advantage. He brings out the very worst in us, and that's his only talent. Seriously, fuck that guy. Something like basic income and anything else that helps shield people from loss, even a little bit, can help prevent another piece of shit like Trump from getting so much power again.


Nit3fury

At least that lady’s eyes were opened a bit


smegko

How come we owe this next round of $1400 payments to Trump?


Daddy-Toadsworth-

Meanwhile that's exactly what the left is doing. Radical gun control, forced church closings, unchecked immigration, fucking with interstate travel, etc


TJ_McWeaksauce

>Radical gun control [A Timeline of Major Gun Control Laws in America](https://time.com/5169210/us-gun-control-laws-history-timeline/) This timeline outlines the most important events in influencing the country’s federal gun policy. Please go through it and point out what's radical. The last major legislation listed in this timeline was from 13 years ago, and it makes owning a gun easier, not harder, in Washington DC. >2008 > >*District of Columbia v. Heller* essentially changed a nearly 70-year precedent set by *Miller* in 1939. While the *Miller* ruling focused on the “well regulated militia” portion of the Second Amendment (known as the “collective rights theory” and referring to a state’s right to defend itself), *Heller* [focused](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html) on the “individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.” > >*Heller* challenged the constitutionality of a 32-year-old handgun ban in Washington, D.C., and found, “The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment.” > >It did not however nullify other gun control provisions. “The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms,” stated the ruling. I don't see any radical gun control legislation here. But go ahead, tell me what's radical. >forced church closing Yeah, because we're in the middle of a pandemic, and congregating in an enclosed space and singing hymns is one of the worst possible things to do when a highly-infectious respiratory disease is infecting and killing people around the country and around the world. You know what's worse than closing churches during a pandemic? People dying because they caught a disease at church. The closures are temporary, but death is not. You know who recognizes that fact? The pope and other Christian leaders. [Pope in dramatic visit to empty Rome to pray for end of virus](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-pope/pope-in-dramatic-visit-to-empty-rome-to-pray-for-end-of-virus-idUSKBN212094) >The pope, the Vatican - a tiny city-state surrounded by Rome - and the church in predominantly Catholic Italy have all been forced to modify centuries of tradition because of the outbreak. > >In Italy, as elsewhere, Masses have been canceled to avoid people gathering. Bishops have urged the faithful to participate via television and the internet. > >In staunchly Catholic Poland, which has reported just over a 100 coronavirus cases and three deaths, church authorities recommended the faithful watch mass on TV or online after the government banned public gatherings larger than 50 people. But maybe you think the pope and all these other Christian leaders are radical liberals because they give a shit about the health of their church goers. >unchecked immigration [The past decade’s foreign-born population gains will be the smallest since the 1970s](https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-past-decades-foreign-born-population-gains-will-be-the-smallest-since-the-1970s/) **Trend reflects restrictive immigration policies and historic low in US population growth** >The new Census Bureau statistics show that the foreign-born population has gained just 4.9 million people during the 2010 to 2019 period. This is well below the 5.6 million, 11.3 million, and 8.8 million gained during the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s, respectively. These were the peak immigration decades after the enactment of the [Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965](https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1951-2000/Immigration-and-Nationality-Act-of-1965/), which abolished restrictive national immigration quotas. Given the recent COVID-19 [restrictions on immigration](https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/trump-immigration-workers-coronavirus/2020/06/22/3b969e88-b489-11ea-9b0f-c797548c1154_story.html) enacted by the Trump administration, it is unlikely that the 2010 to 2020 decade will register a higher foreign-born gain than observed in the previous three ([Download Table A](https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/20200928_BrookingsMetro_ForeignBornGains_Tables-A-and-B.xlsx)). The 2010-2019 period saw the lowest foreign-born population growth in the past 50+ years. Sure, some of that is due to the highly restrictive immigration policies of Donald's administration, but he was president for only 2 of those years. Obama was president for 7 of those years, and if he and other Democrats really pushed for "unchecked immigration", as you say, then 2 years of Donald would not have been enough to bring the entire period's number down so low. By the way, the peak immigration decades since 1965 include the 1980s and the 2000s. Who was president throughout most of those two decades? Democrats? No, Ronald Reagan was president for a vast majority of the 80s, and George W. Bush was president during a vast majority of the 2000s. If Republicans hate immigration so much, then why was immigration so high under two Republican presidents in two separate decades? Could it be that this concept of "Democrats want unchecked immigration" is utter bullshit? Could it be that both Democrats and Republicans recognize that immigration is actually important to keeping a nation healthy and productive, but Republicans talk shit about immigrants because it's good for campaign donations and votes from their racist base? [What the 2020 census will reveal about America: Stagnating growth, an aging population, and youthful diversity](https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-the-2020-census-will-reveal-about-america-stagnating-growth-an-aging-population-and-youthful-diversity/#:~:text=National%20population%20growth%20began%20to,observed%20as%20recently%20as%202000) >For much of the recent past, the U.S. has been one of the most rapidly growing countries in the industrialized world. This was especially true in the last half of the 20th century, due to the post-World War II baby boom and rising immigration in the 1980s and 1990s. But the 2020 census could very well show the [smallest decade-long growth rate in America’s history](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/12/22/the-2010s-saw-the-lowest-population-growth-in-u-s-history-new-census-estimates-show/). Could it be that everything you wrote in your comment is bullshit?


Angry_Retail_Banker

Don't forget the Left opening the Portal to Hell, inviting the interstellar alien invasion, summoning the Eldritch Abominations, going door to door through the Midwest and executing every firstborn male child, selling title deed to the United States to China for 1 million yuan, and other totally real things that the Left totally really did.


Daddy-Toadsworth-

Why are you stalking my comments and posting unfunny replies? No one cares


Angry_Retail_Banker

You seem to care. You've discovered the real truth about this manufactured "virus" and are trying to warn us all here in the Basic Income subreddit. We need more people who care.


DontHateDefenestrate

Maybe they should have been pulling harder on their bootstraps instead of rioting for entitlements. *Damn I've been waiting to turn that around on them!*


smegko

They would respond: they were forced out of work by bad public policies.


DontHateDefenestrate

Right, because they always have an excuse. It’s like they all got laid off by “Goalposts ‘R’ Us”... *Can’t Prove It? We Move It!*


Daddy-Toadsworth-

Yeah it's not like any industries have been completely shut down lately for arbitrary and absurd reasons


skeetsauce

> arbitrary and absurd reasons TIL 475k dead Americans is arbitrary


Angry_Retail_Banker

Those 475k Americans are actually hiding in a bunker with the Sandy Hook and 9/11 victims. We must protect u/Daddy-Toadsworth- at all cost as he's the only one who was able to figure it out.


Daddy-Toadsworth-

Hey brother if you choose to believe that 475 thousand Americans died from a corona virus in like a year, then that is on you. It was only 400 thousand yesterday. Honestly idgaf if you believe shit or not. Just stop using that bullshit delusion to gain leverage and infringe on civil liberties. That's all we want. Stop telling everyone what to do


Angry_Retail_Banker

I'm with you! The virus is a Democratic Chinese hoax and everyone knows it. We all know that the powerful elite in this country who benefit from a booming economy intentionally crippled the economy so they can institute a unified world government with them at the top of the pyramid they're already at the top of. The evidence of this is so painfully obvious that you really need to be suffering from Liberal Trump Derangement Synrdrome to miss it. The power elite want to shut down the entire economy put everyone out of work, and they'll demand that we go back to business as usual and force people to go back to work during a "pandemic" in order to make that happen. People like you and I gotta stick together. We know the truth. Whenever we something happening, we know that the opposite is the truth every single time. Fight the power, brother!


Daddy-Toadsworth-

You can totally ignore anyone if you just label them crazy and put a bunch of words in their mouth that they never said or even suggested. That's easier than just using your brain I guess. You're also not very funny and are trying too hard


Angry_Retail_Banker

That's actually what the Radical Marxist Left does to us! They just label us crazy and make us look stupid with "facts" and "numbers". Honestly, it makes us feel bad every time they do it, like their "facts" don't care about our feelings. We know that those 480,000 people are still alive and didn't die from this "pandemic" and we need start using our brains to convince the mindless sheep to wake up. These are scary times; who knows what the LIEberals are gonna make us do!? Also, good impression of a whiny snowflake SJW. I bet they're crying those liberal tears ;) DELICIOUS LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!


smegko

Sure, but why criticize the mote in your brother's eye and ignore the log in your own?


Mocknbird

Cuz u suck


cucufag

When I benefit from government policies and safety nets, it's because my circumstances were unavoidable and I deserve it. When you benefit from it, it's because you're a lazy parasite trying to mooch as much free handouts from the government as possible.


smegko

There's plenty of money for everyone. That should be the argument ...


Regicollis

Many of the rioters were middle class and court records reveals that there were many cops and small business owners among them. This doesn't mean that they didn't have financial troubles though. The combination of middle class status and financial trouble makes sense. Typically fascists are not so much the poorest of the poor but rather they are members of the petty bourgeoisie who feel that they have been cheated of the status and privilege they deserve.


6footdeeponice

tbf imagine being a hard-working stiff and you genuinely aren't making much more than the unemployed. That would make me angry too


FireDawg10677

Billionaires greed makes them blind to the destruction wealth inequality can cause in a society in the end it will drag them down with the rest of us


ComplainyBeard

The average fascist is a formally successful upper middle class small business owner. "History of financial trouble" doesn't mean "poor", it means that your current lifestyle is under threat. They're racist and bigoted not because they ARE poor but because they believe they don't deserve to BECOME poor and when it seems like it might happen they blame the people they used to be "above" in their minds because they think that evening the playing field in race relations leaves them at a disadvantage economically. Essentially economic downturns put them in competition with everyone instead of just other upper middle class white people and they freak out and start fascist militias to try to stop it from happening.


ComplainyBeard

"Despite her outward signs of success, Ryan had struggled financially for years. She was still paying off a $37,000 lien for unpaid federal taxes when she was arrested. She’d nearly lost her home to foreclosure before that. She filed for bankruptcy in 2012 and faced another IRS tax lien in 2010." If you owe $37,000 in taxes you aren't poor and you probably never were.


smegko

My theory is that if Congress had passed the $2000 stimulus that Trump ordered, they would have been appeased.


pmarkland

You mean people who made a regrettable decision have a history of making regrettable decisions?


Colzach

And media focused primarily on racism...


EriclcirE

To be fair, many people in that crowd were displaying racist symbols or yelling racist things. Bad crowd


Colzach

That’s very true. And it was found that a portion of them were not economically stressed—CEOs and the like. It’s very likely that it was combination of economically desperate people who are generally racist, nationalistic, Christian fundamentalists. It was a nasty affair that pretty much represented the worst of our society. I can’t stand Hillary’s “basket of deplorable’s” comment, but I can’t help but think the insurrection helped push that narrative... I’d actually have been supportive (not of the violence against people, but of the act of rebellion) if they were fighting against oligarchy, but they were, quite literally, trying to maintain the corruption, elitism, and oligarchy. It baffles the mind how they can be so misguided.


tegestologist

Yes, it’s mostly white people who are losing their privilege and are angry about it. They feel they deserve more and that society is ignoring their plight. Trump spoke directly to these issues. It’s pretty obvious.


randompittuser

I don’t know what media you’re reading, but 99% of everything I saw focused on the violent insurrection.