By - quoththeraven1990
>for a long time
If you bought in 2020, you haven't owndeed anything for "a long time", let alone been in the red.
They are a minimum 3-5 year investment. Emphasis on minimum.
And the only reason people don't freak out as much on property is because your house doesn't have a live digital ticker out the front updating it's value second by second. Imagine how many people would be jumping out their windows if they saw their 90% leveraged $1M property drop just a few %.
Thanks for the advice, and great analogy!
One thing I’ve learnt about human nature is we tend to think what ever the current situation is that it will continue that way. The trick to investing is to be aware of this. I’m guilty of it myself but force myself to challenge this thinking when I get it and follow my plan. For reference in 34 put $107k into managed funds and ETFs over the last 2 years and I’m also down about $30k. I also expect it to go noticeably lower. When I get those feelings of hopelessness I will follow my plan to buy more. The market has never not recovered from a crash and gone on to break eyes therefore if the markets giving me cheap prices the smart thing to do is to buy more. It’s really hard to actually pull the trigger on this at the time but I’ve started doing it and I’m actually starting to be excited about the falls instead of scared of them. I hope this helps you and I’m sure you’re on the right path just stick at it stick to your plan
Bullshit advice. Some dude just made up a timescale for you and your personal financial situation without understanding you, your finances or where you want to be in 1,3,5,10 years. Run away further from these people than the broker you originally spoke to
You just gave me an idea for a product.
This is so incorrect
Not the entire purpose. If the purpose is to get income from dividends, it might not matter at all. Just because the share price drops, it doesn't mean that dividends drop.
As I explain to my mrs, losing money on the stock market is elegant and classy and proves that I’m successful.
It’s even more prestigious that you did it through a broker by the way. Congrats.
Yep, you beat the market if you lost less than the major indexes! It's how the industry works, I can vouch for you to your mrs!
She already has a boyfriend on the side but thanks 👍
Shares go up? Not once i buy them. Down down, prices are down, when i buy.
Be a bro and give us all a heads up on what you're abt to buy and we'll all hop off ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy)
I call it the Schrödinger's stock, that is the company's value only goes down once you've invested in it.
>I call it the Schrödinger's stock, that is the company's value only goes down once you've invested in it.
holy shyte! I own a lot of schrodinger's stock!
Can't really give any meaningful advice without knowing what shares and how much.
$30,000 is meaningless without context.
30k out of 50k hurts. 30k from 300k not as bad. 30k in 1mil, not quite worth bothering about. That's the bit I'm curious of.
QAU, AIM, MP1, HM1... some others that I can't remember. So far AIM has been the worst performer...
You should be posting in ASX Bets with a portfolio like that
Nah, we give good penny stock advice there, eg ZIP
The financial advisor probably spend his time on WSB.
well they seem like pretty risky stock imo. Hopefully you fully understood the risk before investing in them.
i certainly wouldn't have put all my investment money into such few high risk stocks.
I can't really say if they'll recover. You'll need to research each an make that determination.
I agree, that broad market ETFs is a very good option as a core investment strategy. Then high risk stocks on the side if you want more risk/reward.
I hope you're not paying this advisor any annual fees...
Yeah, I did opt for mid-risk stocks so that's definitely on me, and there is a brokerage fee. EFTs sounds like a good option to negate the loss. Thanks!
Yes as we come into a recession the only sure way to make up those losses is to buy more stocks from another broker.
Buying more stocks even in an ETF you're still liable to lose value on them in the short term. The only way to guarantee getting money is buy working. Stop investing in stock and start working at McDonald's. McDonald's is always on the look out for new investors, and the management training program at your local store is a great way to start. Visit our website for more information on opportunities near you.
There’s a lot of truth in this advice.
I like it so much more than the boring, ridiculous, deluded and downright dangerous “buy ETFs” as the way to save everything.
Investing advice, you shouldn’t buy stocks unless you have a good understanding of the business. You shouldn’t buy something just because an advisor told you so. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean sell. It means ask you advisor why he has any hopes for them to rebound. Then you check over his research to see if you agree with it.
Investing, in my opinion, is one of those things that you need to do for it to be done correctly. If you don’t know what to do, ETFs are always a safe bet.
QAU is a gold ETF. I can see why he’s speculating on gold, but I’m surprised that’s the ETF he’s chosen. I’m personally not fond of getting hedged ETFs since in the long term (>10 years) it’s just lost money.
HM1 is an actively managed fund. I’d guess your advisor is just being lazy here and letting them doing the stock picking for you. Idk why he’s chosen them in particular. AM tend to outperform in recessions, but that’s mostly because they can go short. This is a long only fund. In which case, for most people I’d say an equities ETF would be better.
The other 2 are just some Aussie tech companies that seem like they’ve been chucked in for a bit of razzle dazzle. Idk anything about them, I’d be very keen to see why he’s recommended those 2 in particular though.
I’d also like to know why HM1 out of all AM funds. I can see the argument for an AM fund (same goes for long only over passive but it is riskier), but I’m not sure what makes that one special (again I know nothing about it so don’t read into that at all). Same goes for QAU over literally any other way of investing in gold. QAU has slightly underperformed the price of gold but that’s somewhat to be expected. I fear you bought at a bad time with gold. Inflation hasn’t been as bad as expected, which is why it hasn’t been a good inflation hedge at the moment.
Anyway, I’d be very keen to hear why he made the specific choices he did. I don’t think anyone here can offer you true advice on what you should do with regards to holding or selling though.
Investing in a handful of stocks doesn't sound like a "diverse portfolio" to me. You'd get better diversiifcation with ETFs that spread your investments over 1000s of companies in different sectors and countries.
I hate generic advice like this.
OP has not provided near enough information in order for anyone to provide meaningful advice - so a “buy ETFs” is as dangerous as telling her to take out 10 credit cards, rip out the cash from all and dump in some shitbox mining company run by penguins.
If your adviser suggested these stocks and gave you any inkling that this was diverse, ditch that adviser asap.
I don’t think you should be in the stock market, to be very blunt.
Damn I was going to tell you not to worry about it and assumed you were talking about financial advice and buying etf/managed funds.
Direct share investment carry’s a bunch more risk and you gotta know what you’re doing (to make money). I don’t and so invested in various high and low risk managed funds.
I would personally be putting the $ into an indexed fund.
ASX 200/300 and MSCI ex Australia
Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated.
That’s crap advice by the way
That sounds like di-worse-ified portfolio.
That’s not diversification bro 💀
Damn, how many/what kind of stocks would I need to have a ‘diverse’ portfolio? Or does ‘diverse’ mean different kinds of investments, not just stocks?
And this is why you're out 30k... 🤐
Good on you for asking the right questions and having a good attitude.
You want to buy or be exposed to all sectors of a market. So for eg, in Australia you wanna buy little amounts in tech, some in resources, some in retail etc. A little bit in everything. That’s just Australia!
Then you wanna make sure you’re exposed to international also, so similarly you wanna buy US stocks in tech, resources, retail, etc etc manufacturing. You can also buy property stock or managed funds.
If you wanna take the hassle out of doing this yourself you can buy a managed fund or ETF. Just check the annual % fees. But they are extremely beneficial to you to be able to get exposed to 100s of individual companies by simply buying one unit of the managed fund or ETF. others have pointed this out too, for eg look up Vanguard funds.
I wouldn’t just buy individual companies, like ever lol. Unless you wanna buy like Tesla or Amazon for the long term 10+ years.
Also being down $30k means nothing to us. You should look at the % down or up. 10% down is normal and expected time to time but anything over 20% down should be a warning sign.
Thanks so much, that’s really great advice and I really appreciate the detail about the market. Definitely still a lot to learn!
If you can’t remember what’s in your portfolio you’re definitely holding too many companies. Sounds to me like you’re gambling more than investing. Let it be a lesson to you. You’re still young enough to have compound interest work for you for a few decades.
What reputable broker put you into that rubbish…. Also no reputable brokers I know would actually give advice that put you in only half a dozen individual stocks for a small amount of money… and what you’re talking is relatively small. I know this industry well… reputable brokers don’t deal with small clients. Compliance risk for retail clients doing undiversified high risk direct equities is far too high for the small brokerage/fees generated.
This is just frankly hilarious.
Can you at least buy an index ETF to make us all a bit calmer? Maybe VAS, maybe VDHG as you like a bit more spice.
Congrats - you're in it for the long haul now brother!
It certainly seems that way!
Don't worry too much. Market is down a fair bit 2022 so of course your portfolios is going to be diwn. I have a very diversified ETF portfolios and its down $10k in last week alone and i am happy about as that means my DCA payment today got ne more units.
You and everyone else
But the dividends!
I'm actually thinking of buying telstra despite the downward graph lol
Now this is hedging
Thanks so much! I definitely need to do more research into better stocks.
Sounds like a great time to buy!
Stocks are on sale
What compelled you to seek the services of a broker in the first place?
I know next to nothing about the market and would not be confident trading stocks without a company/broker to advise me...
I know it's late advice now, but a basic index fund would have outperformed 70-90% of professional advisers, and wouldn't have cost you a cent.
I know it's boring and cliched, but there is a reason why 90% of advice on here is VAS/VDHG/VGS etc, etc. Because it works, and over the long term will almost certainly beat anyone you can pay to beat the market for you
About 10% of my investments are individual holdings... which I pretty much consider to be no different to using Sportsbet!
There is a reason the big players do dodgy shit, because actually trading stock is very difficult. Thats why they have dark pools, front run, naked shorting, synthetics, pay for order, (insert other borderline criminal shit here).
Diversified broad index fund beats managed funds 9/10 times.
Yes and basically 99 out of 100 times over 5 years plus
You said a lot of things but I don’t think you know what they mean. I guess you read flash boys?
Front running is illegal, and I doubt exists in Australia like you think. Nothing wrong with naked or covered shorting but in many cases naked shorting is illegal on stocks and the regulators will eventually pick it up. Synthetics are perfectly legal as are dark pools.
100% buy diversified ETFs but everything else you said is just a word salad.
See that's the issue. Trading stocks does not provide returns, at least over that of a broad index fund.
Stock brokers are of a bygone era before computer analysis proved they were cognitively dissonant scammers.
Make of that what you will
I work for a company that is covered by analysts in all of the major brokers. These people are the dumbest smart people going.
Their maths are accurate but some of their assumptions and critical analysis is like they have rocks in their heads.
Fundamentally, it's rarely wise to depend on advisers in a field you know nothing about. If you know the basics, and use someone to save time it normally works. If you out-source all knowledge and decisions, you are placing a premium both on your ability to judge people and their ability to infer what your true desires are-- which goes wrong a lot.
With that said, stocks in a down market go down a lot. And a handful for individual stocks will be much more volatile than the overall market. If you aren't into researching individual companies, I'm surprised your broker recommended investing in individual stocks.
Buy coca-cola and keep reinvesting the dividends.
I used to be a manager for a group of trainers. At one point I was seeking investor funds for a new business venture; and a trainer under me suggested speaking to his mother. Turns out, she’d worked for Coca-cola for 30 years and participated in their stock purchase program and had accumulated 3+ million in stock in her time there.
I was trying to launch a cannabis based business, so it wasn’t for her but the lesson wasn’t missed on me; Coca Cola stock reinvested for the long term is a pretty solid investment.
Warren Buffett agrees with you!
You hit a once in lifetime pandemic and are now hitting a twice in a lifetime inflationary period.
Hope you didn't need the cash any time soon.
Yeah, fortunately I didn't put all of my savings in, as I didn't think that was a good idea.
When do you think we will bottom out and start to rise again?
Yeah pretty much everyone is going through this now. It's a bear market. Stop looking at it and start getting together cash to invest sometime over the next year or DCA.
The only reason you should be worried about it is if you need the money now. It which case it was a mistake to invest it in the first place. In 10-15 years it won't matter.
Thanks so much, that makes me feel much less stressed. I definitely don't need the money now so I guess this hit isn't so bad in the long run.
Firstly, normal feelings to have.
Provided you do not need to sell: as long as the companies you are invested in can weather the storm ahead, if there is in fact a storm, then todays price is irrelevant.
The market is a short term voting machine (ie sentiment) but long term weighing machine (ie business performance).
You don’t sell when the market is voting against your idea (or basically all ideas rn), you sell when your idea is no longer doing what you predicted it to do.
So on and so forth.
Thanks so much, that definitely puts things into perspective for me. I'm certainly not planning on selling any time soon, and I'm in this for the long haul.
Meh, losses aren't realised. Let it roll. markets go up, markets go down. My on paper losses are a lot more than that. Buy low.... keep on DCA. Get used to the ups and downs, stop watching it day to day. Remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Eh, just keep it in.
I'm in around $200k, now worth $135k.
Mostly in VAS/VGS.
It's out of my hands.
Will do, thanks!
Damn that’s a decent portfolio… good on ya pal. Obviously the drop in about $75k sucks but from what I hear VGS/VAS/VDHG etc… are long term so you don’t technically lose $75k until you actually sell.
Its a pretty suspicious portfolio if you ask me...
When did this dude buy 200k of VAS/VGS that would now be worth 135k?
Im down $200k
Wow, that sucks! Looks like a bad time all around.
It will come back. Try not to check your losses so often and make an active effort to avoid worrying about it. Once you come back from a big loss you'll have perspective next time it happens and it won't give you so much anxiety.
Definitely. I do check them all the time so I should try not looking every second day!
If you have the time, chances are you will eventually bounce back. Just depends what you need the money fo
I posted that I was 100% cash and got downvoted.
> I'm 100% cash while interests rates are rising & stocks are dropping.
The market has dropped further from that post.
The market is just reflecting the state of the economy, this wont be able to bounce back for a while until we see inflation, wage growth and petrol prices resolve. The best thing to do here is hold. Historically after any market lull it seems to spike back up to the traditional path of trajectory which is upwards,
Yeah, seems like it. Thanks!
For reassurance, just look at the latest [Vanguard Index Chart](https://intl.assets.vgdynamic.info/intl/australia/documents/resources/A1-2022_Index-Chart_poster_02.pdf). In the long run you'll be happy you invested. Unlike cash which is eroded by inflation, assets only go up in the long run.
Asset classes and indices go up. Individual assets not necessarily so.
That's why you buy the index fund. Simple strategy that requires no knowledge and just works.
That's why I replied. It's not what OP is doing
Agreed, I just saw OPs comment where they say what they invested in. They should just buy the index and stop using a full service broker.
Of course he says not to worry. He loses his trailings if you sell.
Financial advisors are grifters. Best to self educate and manage your own investments.
To your question - no-one knows whats going to happen from this point onwards. If your time horizon is long, and you hold strong value assets, might as well hold since you're already down so much.
You could always hedge to protect any further downside.
Yeah, good point. I definitely need to research more myself.
I do think it wouldn't be a good idea to sell at this point but just wait for them to recover somewhat. Good thing is I have time on my hands.
Thanks for the advice!
Yeah if you have time, and you don't need the cash - hold and hedge to protect against any further downside.
At least then you can sleep at night.
Advisors aren’t getting a trail on a stock portfolio. They will earn a commission on buying or selling so really the incentive is to maximise portfolio turnover, which they actually haven’t done here.
Hang in.... For the last 100 years shares have grown by an average of around 10% p.a.
Don't forget survivorship bias. Share market indices have been going up but not all shares.
Which is why you buy tracker funds and not individual equities.
Which is something OP didn't do!
Good to hear! Looks like I'll just have to ride it out and hope for the best.
If you cash them out, you will make loss.
Just leave it if you don't need any money now
What's in the portfolio ? Mine hasn't dropped that far. Some have gone up.
Just hold on, heaps of people are also down in this current market. I'm also down close to 18% of my portfolio
Yeah, very true. Thanks!
Just leave them there. Don't touch.
Yeah, seems wise to just leave them be
Feel for you, that sounds shit.
I’d consider talking to either a financial advisor, your accountant, or both.
Fingers crossed what you’ve got is a sale and a great buying opportunity. But there are places to bounce ideas off, this is one, and those are 2 more.
Thanks so much! Great advice, much appreciated.
Unless interest rates change shares are doneskies for at least a few years. hold and see.
There’s always value to be had somewhere if you are willing to look and put in the effort.
Plenty of millionaires were created in the early days of the pandemic hitting - nobody would have predicted that.
You are assuming that the market will be the same. We have passed the previous inflation peak. First time in the new monetary system for a subsequent peak to do that. A cycle has completed a cycle of what?? No one can know or what it means but I can assume it means that future valuations will stop getting brought forward.
I make no assumptions at all. My point is that not all shares should be lumped in the same category as you did. There will be some industries that fly, even in a market of negative sentiment like we are currently in.
Could have been worse.... Zip :/
That’s ok my US portfolio has lost 65% of its value.
What do have in your portfolio?
Mainly tech shares from employers
Remember how this feels. On future crashes, refer back to today, and be glad you didn’t sell
Great point, thanks!
Buy an index fund instead of individual stocks.
Be prepared for more blood. The financial downturn is only at the tip of the iceberg. It takes ages for inflation and high interest rates to fully wreak havoc.
I wouldn't worry about it. My properties are down $60k in the last two months alone. It makes no difference. Keep buying in - buy the dip. Better in the long run.
Remember also that it's not the capital value, but the passive income (from rent/dividends) that matter.
Depressions/recessions are actually a good thing for young investors. It lets us buy in more cheaply. Trust me a strong economy is tremendously overrated.
Capital value absolutely matters, especially when you want to liquidate the asset or are mortgaged to the hilt and the banks calls you about your LVR which is fast approaching 100%.
Something tells me your properties will be down much more than 60K next year and there is a limit to rent increases.
> Capital value absolutely matters, especially when you want to liquidate the asset
I don't plan to ever sell a property
> or are mortgaged to the hilt and the banks calls you about your LVR which is fast approaching 100%.
I doubt this would ever happen as I only borrow up to 4x my income (for next property planning only on about 3x my income) and if banks are calling me they'd be calling every other homeowner on the market
> Something tells me your properties will be down much more than 60K next year and there is a limit to rent increases.
If my properties fall even more then great...it means my next 2 properties will be cheaper. I'm pretty young so I desperately want to see economic armageddon as I reckon I can ride it out.
Leverage is no joke brochacho! Once you are really underwater with leverage the pain is quite exquisite. "holding forever" doesn't work when you're dealing with leverage. Also, doubling down with more leverage is the ultimate risk play.
> Once you are really underwater with leverage the pain is quite exquisite.
Hopefully anyone in that situation gets the house sold from underneath him or her into the hands of someone who's much more financially responsible. I'd love to see some auctions of distressed properties, and general financial ruin.
> Also, doubling down with more leverage is the ultimate risk play.
You can't double down with more leverage in a falling market, since the equity valuation is going down.
Bro, you could very well be that person, be careful! Also you can totally double down, it's when you take on more leverage. That's what you said you'd do (in essence) when you said your next two properties will be cheaper. Anyway, you know your finances but leverage is no joke!
> That's what you said you'd do (in essence) when you said your next two properties will be cheaper.
I pay off each property as I go or fill up the offset and debt recycle. I don't have more than 4x my income in debt at any time. So I won't be that person. But thanks for the warning.
It's paper loss. You only actually lose when you sell at a loss.
Nope that’s not true, thinking that is a sunk cost fallacy.
It’s almost funny that it’s become a saying but I reckon it’s #1 for incorrect advice given on this sub.
Or when the company you bought shares in ends up failing. Simple truths that work for an index don't work for single shares.
Very true, thanks. I guess I'll have to wait and see!
Good time to lock in some capital losses for future tax years
Buy the dip!
Yeah, I was thinking about this...
I've never purchased shares, and not really in the position for it. I'm guessing from the comments, now would be a good time to buy ETFs or something, if you have the spare cash.
Turn the screen upside down and switch your colour scheme to black/white then voila! Now your shares are going up again...in gray!
What goes down as part of a general economic downturn will come back up - the nub is how long. 2-5 years?
Yeah, good point. I'm definitely in this for the long haul so I'm not planning on selling anything for a good number of years. I'm hoping I'll have something to show after a decade or two!
Sack your advisor, and buy the dip.
Blindly buying a dip isnt good advice, could be another reason the stocks are tanking
It's just like a roller coaster buddy, hold on and enjoy the ride!
Thanks! Definitely looks like it :)
Cash out. The only people making money in this market are those directly managing their money.
Well it'll only never go up if all of the companies in your portfolio just crash and turn to dust,
Unlikely bar total global annihilation
“Reputable stockbroking firm”
What company? What did you buy?
Why a broker firm? People should just get a commsec etc account and put a band in at a time, learn as you are going.
We had a huge bull market, we are now heading the other way; stocks cycle and one look at index charts will show you that.
You can sell in the downturn, or wait for the next upswing? If you don’t need the cash I wouldn’t be touching a thing - you’ll end up buying back much higher in the future when things look rosey
% is all that matters. 20% ok, 100% is bad.
Sell low, buy high. Whoops, wrong board. Do not sell based on price alone. If the businesses are solid businesses their stock price will recover.
What was your plan when you bought at the start? And what has changed since then
It isn’t lost until you sold them
Stocks being in the red is not bad and neither is being down $30,000, but this is entirely dependent on what what % is 30k of your portfolio. If your portfolio is down 10%, kind of understandable in the current climate. However, if your portfolio is down 30% then that's a pretty massive decline for a two year timespan.
Going off one of your other posts, looks like you've invested in some relatively unknown stocks, which maybe your financial advisor knows something about or maybe he doesn't and just bought because they were hyped up at the time. The general advice in this forum will be to stick to ETFs or at least the bluechip stocks (i.e. the big companies ideally in the ASX200 list that are unlikely to go broke anytime soon, think CBA, COL, CSL etc.) and to only go outside of that when you've done your research and know what you're getting into, why you're getting into it and are aware of the risks.
Shares are basically rng, no matter what people will tell you and you'll just have to wait it out.
Ok so someone posted a link to your question somewhere else and out of curiosity I thought I’d come check it out.
Wow wow and wow !
Not your question, but the amount of awful and downright dangerous advice people are handing out. Having now whacked a couple of them, my first piece of advice to you is that you haven’t provided near enough information in your post in order for someone to provide you a meaningful response. Your post has just elicited the usual “buy ETFs” , “buy indexed funds”, “buy real estate”. They are all nonsense responses given your situation is not clear.
Some people have suggested seeing a financial adviser and that’s exactly what you should be doing if you do not understand financial markets. The other alternative is to learn about financial markets. You don’t need to learn everything, but you can definitely learn enough to take control of your money and manage the level of risk you want.
Maybe you want mid level risk and direct investment in specific shares - totally your call. Then again maybe you want something only tracks our markets, or maybe still you want to leave it in a bank.
Just don’t believe anyone that tells you specifically what to invest in after posting 5 lines of your investing history in reddit.
For what it’s worth I’d love to give you some investment advice, it’s just not the slightest bit possible without understand you, your background, your interest in finance, your objectives financially, your financial situation and your personal situation.
Good luck and be careful
You haven’t lost a cent until you sell. Ride out the storm, at your age you’ve got another 20 odd years of that money working for you until you need it.
Timing plays a big part in investing. IMO you have got unlucky, buying stocks when they were at their peak, then a few weeks later (just after you bought) they have tanked in value.
If the stocks are worth it, it will take you longer to see a return on your investment(s) -- compared to someone who bought stocks during the few weeks after COVID. They bought at the dip. "The only way is up", they say, at this point.
Time is on your side though, and you have plenty of years ahead of you. Image if you were in your 60's and bought.
Just don't check it until the bear market is over.
This is why markets crash, people spook and sell.
Stop logging in and looking, when they are out of sight they are out of mind.
Right there with you buddy, if you don’t need the cash, just hold. She will be back eventually.
Call your bank and get a refund
30k out of how much?
Now is a good time to buy more.
But low sell high.
Regular investment helps even out the highs n lows
The best thing to do is panic. I find that always helps.
Seriously though, just about everyone would be in the red at the moment. My portfolio is down about 14% for the year. But that’s ok, I’ll buy more. It’s about what their value is in 10,20,30 years time that matters to me.
What's the problem?
Just need 2 stocks. BHP and Commonwealth Bank.
Covers the Australian market..... mining and banking.
Learn to hedge. Cut out bad positions - hopium is the biggest killer. Constantly keep an eye for opportunities.
Stock goes up good, stock goes down, PANIK!
The stock market is a gambling hall, with odds and payouts, it's like vegas baby.
Oy other thing you could do is sell them push the limits of what a wash is and refinance.
Eg sell vdhg and use money to buy dhhf. Same same but different.
This would effectively lower this year's taxable income by 30k
Let's hope you arnt in cryto I'm down 1mil+ but meh I pulled out double what I invested the rest can ride.
I might be wrong but I didn't think capital losses can be deducted against income?
You’re not wrong, it can’t
Capital losses can only be used to offset capital gains.