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Less gyms and clubs,.more waste management, recycling, demolition and transport companies.




I think that's the Irish ones in particular though ?... travellers that don't travel anymore, big detached house with grounds, then live in a caravan parked next to it.


Like Alan Partridge?


Dan the ‘daggerman’ from Dagenham


*Hello Partridge, you're through to the static home*


Ye House


Excalibur Cottage


I heard a real big gang moved to Leatherhead, they even have a shuttle bus from the train station.


That’s the unilever bus…




Lol what


I think 'protection' is still massively up there, especially in the bar/club scene


Scaffolding firms. After initial outlay its a cash rich business and it is truly money for old rope.


I used to stop at a breakfast sandwich shop on the way to work at the same time as a scaffolding crew did. They'd all be chattering about who was inside, who was waiting for bail, who was on tag and who was getting out and coming back to work... If my house ever needs scaffolding I'm getting a locksmith in first to secure all the windows


Long feller will be avin words 😬😬


Viz got it right: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C77EdMIXwAE59fq?format=jpg&name=large


Clubs are a really terrible way to launder money now, not very cash centric and a load of scrutiny on them.


Why waste firms? Is it easier to launder money or is there another reason?


Good over for access to space and gear. As a bussiness you can pipe anything through it as an expense. Relatively difficult to track accounts. Never ending legitimate business


And a legitimate reason for a large number of vehicle movements.


There’s money in shit…


Or - there’s brass in muck


kind of but i think they've largely been displaced by foreign criminals. Cockneys as a whole are a dying breed tbh


Just got gentrified. They're in Essex. Always makes me laugh when people complain about whites moving to Brixton. How can people who been there for less than 40 years be whinging about the exact same shit they did over the last 40 years. 😂😂😂


Because when the immigrants moved in they didn’t force the whites out, the whites left by choice. With gentrification the ‘native’ population are forced out with the increased cost of living and also having their homes demolished to make way for unaffordable apartment complexes. Apples and oranges.


Also not about race and more about class. Purely about money and gentrification. Notting hill is a perfect example. You can literally map the spread over the years down Portabello Road and you can say what you want about that road but that was a community no matter what race for decades. Its genuinely sad what's happening to the UK and the house prices and communities. It's not ok.


you articulated this perfectly!


What's happening exactly? It isn't like the current residents have been here for centuries or anything. They changed the area 30-40 years back, now it's getting changed again.


30-40 years ago the areas might have been cheap, which is why the residents moved in then. Landlords will have priced them out of living in their own homes/land values might make them more profit by demolishing and rebuilding for higher value, and that's to say nothing about the fact that in large parts of the country in general, people's kids can't buy/rent houses in the same areas their parents did due to 2nd homes or just plain high cost of housing now.


>the whites left by choice. Not always. When the east end slums were cleared and replaced by blocks of flats, many of the former residents were re-housed in the New Towns, like Harlow, Basildon, Bracknell, Hatfield, etc. There was a conscious effort on the part of the authorities to break up the communities that previously lived in the east end.


My grandparents (along with my aunts, uncle and two year old father) were moved from an east end slum to Harlow New Town in 1960. My uncle who was old enough to remember said it was like moving to paradise. There were trees. A three bed house for the six of them instead of a filthy two room tenement. Their own loo. A garden that my grandfather cherished. My grandfather got a steady job at Beecham's that he then had until retirement. They were over the moon with their good fortune. And they lived for the rest of their lives in a well designed neighbourhood with a fantastic community, opportunities for their kids, good education and healthcare (my other grandad was one of the two dentists in the town at that time). I really don't think this is an apt comparison.


I grew up in Hemel Hempstead, also a new town. some parts of the town had a localised regional accent that sounded East London, and the people who were relocated there from 1948-1960 loved it and were still there


Yep, I'm pretty much three generations out of the East End (although Dad is technically a cockney) and I still have an east end twang when I've had a couple of bevvies. Also I didn't realise how much of my language utilises rhyming slang until I moved to Devon and no one knew what I was on about sometimes. They don't call it a cuppa rosie down here. I know there have been some problems with the new towns but I think history will look back on them overall as a success.


You hear this but there's very limited evidence that it's actually happening in that way you've said. Most of these areas have seen further rises in immigrant numbers in the last decade. Most poorer ethnic groups in these areas live in council houses which are less affected by rental increases. It's the lower-middle/middle income groups who are priced out due to gentrification - those who earn enough to not receive government support but are not particularly wealthy. It's why areas such as Hackney and Lambeth have such polarising income groups.


Yeah, part of the issue is that the people growing up on a council estate in Lambeth or Hackney can't afford to buy a flat in their home area so if they're earning a bit of money they're forced to move elsewhere. This can have a negative fragmenting effect on communities.


Apples and Pears you mean


Well said


> when people complain about whites moving to Brixton. Nobody is moaning about this, they're moaning about rich people of any colour moving there and pushing up prices so the locals can't afford to live there anymore. Brixton's great and plenty of white people want to live there, but let's be honest, they're not moving to Somerlyton or Angel Town, are they? A concern is that you end up with rich people taking up all the owned and privately rented accomodation and the consequent rise in inquality leaving current local community limited to only occupying the estates and being more marginalised. > How can people who been there for less than 40 years Who exactly are you talking about, people under 40? 40 years ago was 1982, when Brixton was well known as a largely black area. Black people in Brixton don't want to keep other ethnic groups out - that's plain to see if you know it and Brixton has always been a mixed area - but maintaining the community and its identity, which is one of national importance to black Brits especially but all Brits in reality, is very important.


Essex and north of North London


I'm white, I'm 42, I pretty much grew up in Brixton as both my aunties lived there and I spent every weekend and school holiday with them. My aunties now live in other places in South London that would be classed as 'black' areas. My mum was born and raised on Clapham Park Estate. My home town in SE London is rough as fuck. It's always been an 'ethnic' area - you know what else it always was, a community and didn't fucking matter what colour you were, what language you spoke or which God, if any, you worshipped.


I work with cockneys. It's interesting as the older brothers (around 35) have that classic cockney accent, but their younger brothers (18-25) all have a roadman accent. A cool phenomenon I've noticed at work


What is a roadman accent?


Think brapbrapbrap wid da bad man ting allowitallowitallowit. And other assorted nonsense.


I consider myself educated


Its official name is MLE - Multicultural London English.


Croydonese, as my old history teacher would have said.


Can't we just call it Cuntonese?


Also known as the sound of signing on day at the job centre.


Tbh I live and teach in Bristol and a large number of 11-16 year olds sound like that. They're literal walking talking memes.


I'm moving to Bristol from Kent, it's just as shit here, but I was visiting this week, was fascinating hearing the older people sound like farmers, and the youngsters talking like they're out of fucking Topboy, was bizarre. Was in KFC in Cabot Circus today as it goes, and there were a few students (14-16 y/o) talking like mongs, then one answered his phone and started talking in a Bristolian accent to - I'm assuming his parent


Just gonna upvote becuase I've not seen the word mong for a while and it's nice to see it being used to describe genuine mongs.


There's a good reason why the word mong has gone out of fashion.


I know. And it *shouldn't* be used, but when you spent your teenage years somewhat innocently calling your friends mongs, it's quite nice to see it once it a while. Of course it's distasteful and I'd never normally use it, but in the context of this it's hardly gonna upset anyone is it? I'm absolutely not a 'people can't take a joke anymore' type so I know the connotations are bad.


Were they rampaging across asia laying waste to all in their path to expand the Mongolian empire?!


See any interview with Tricky as to how it should be done! As someone who grew up in South Somerset, the only thing that Bristol lot were farming was white widow. They somehow took the 'wouldn't trust a surgeon who spoke like that' innocence of the west country accent and gave it a hard, urban twang. Always felt like they were somehow taking the piss, up at Dame Emily.




LOOOOL right


Don't mind if I do


I'm not sure your age, but I don't think anybody says "brap" or "bad man ting" anymore Those phrases likely died off when your generation grew up


Not quite the same, but ‘big man ting’ is back among the young people I work with. Had thought that one died out with my generation (26).


I’m so out of touch. But I’m content being.




I'm not 100% sure and this is just my description but it's sort of a mix of English/Carribbean(Patois)/Arab Lol found it hahaha, actually v relevant to OP's post https://youtu.be/9Z8JqutRWrs Enjoy mate


That was hilarious. Bless her, like. But fucking hell…


Official term is multicultural London English https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English


Roadman, also known as ‘badmanz’ or ‘yeah bruvs’


Sticky one styllll kmt


Big man tings.


Just a common or garden cunt…


[Multicultural London English](https://youtu.be/HX6iHLz5yOo?t=230)


My buddy’s much younger brother has a completely different accent to my buddy and the rest of us, we all grew up together. Mad how accents can change from generation.


Coming over here and taking our crimes


Which is a shame. You can’t beat the old school non gangster cockneys, they certainly made a good impact on London. I think they’d all move nowadays though with the prices up there nowadays.


**** No not really. **Oversimplified explanation:** The British Gangster you see in the movies are loosely based on the gangland culture of the late 50's/early1960's. Like the Krays. The authorities broke the gangs up around the end of the 1960's. Using a variety of dodgy tactics, like hiring "professional Witnesses" for false testimony and bringing a "Heavy Mob" to wage war against the gangs. With a level of violence like they were in an 80's revenge action movie. They absolutely destroyed them and those that weren't imprisoned ran off to live overseas. What London has now are a constant turnover of smaller (mostly foreign) gangs, following their victims who emigrate here. Who get broken up by the police, infighting or a new gang moving in and fighting over their territory. Every decade or so a new gang enters the fray and a new gang war starts up. Edit: The police have specialised sections in all of our police forces now (Like Operation Trident), unlike back in the day when it was just a group of random police made to stop the gangs, who specialise in taking down organised crime gangs. Also police forces worldwide speak to each other and help stop each others organised crime issues from spreading. We do have trouble with guns being traded internationally, being syphoned from conflicts like the Balkans (from the 90's) at the moment.


This was really interesting TIL. Thanks!


No problem. Though it is a very rushed over and very very simplified explanation of what happened. Only to keep it from being an essay.


Mate, in terms of how I want to read things when I'm on Reddit, you absolutely aced it. Really interesting, thanks from me too.


any recommendations on what to read to learn more about this?


Some books my dad has: East End Gangland by James Norton Gangland: London's Underworld by James Norton Gangs: A Journey Into the Heart of the British Underworld by Tony Thompson


My dad was a copper in London in the 60s & 70s, he spent time working to take down the Richardsons in South London. Lots of interesting stories including one of following the Richardsons up to Birmingham as they went up there to try to take over done turf up there.


Your dad helped take down my great uncles then


Did he ever walk around the house shouting “you’re nicked!!!” to anyone who’d listen??


Sadly not, but he did have an impressive selection of clip on ties


Wait until the end of the war in Ukraine. I bet a lot of those night vision kits, Javelins & stingers will be going missing and ending up in criminal hands in Europe. The stuff that got left in Afghanistan is already showing up in Kashmir.


> I bet a lot of those night vision kits, Javelins & stingers Probably useful for terrorists, but foe your day-to-day organised crime gang, maybe a little bit over the top?




Tyrone from South London shooting a javelin into someone's window cos they sold weed on his turf


Where do the majority of guns come from that are smuggled into the UK? The level of gun crime lately is worrying.


I'm no expert lol but I know a couple of dodgy characters, while they've never done it themselves they know people who have and apparently most guns are smuggled all the way from ex yugoslav countries through the channel tunnel since it doesn't have the same checks as an airport. ​ Apparently.


I enjoyed reading this, please tell me you’re an author with a book to plug or something 😄 You’ve left me wanting more lol.






My pal Phil kinda fits the description, still doing his thing in Walford.




Brilliant! 🤣




He wasn’t the same since Grant left!




Frank Butcher was the OG, ya pillock!!! https://youtu.be/ZAcG4LVoqBg


Yeah. Have you not seen Pete & Bas?


I just googled them. What is this? Lol


They are the OGs


Thank you for bringing them into my life


Nah, he moved to Hull and goes by the name 'Ronnie Pickering"








Ronnie Pickering


Who the fucks that?


Yeah, ME!




where have i heard this before? i've got an image in my head of a man shouting 'do you know who i am?' from a car window


I'm Ronnie pickering!


Sounds like you know exactly where you’ve heard it before haha


His accomplice moved to Smethwick, Birmingham, and goes by the name "Danny G"


They're not quite old school cockney gangsters, but the Turkish mob near where I live have been around a good few decades.


Tell me you live in Haringey without telling me you live in Haringey.


Philip Lane over here!


Turnpike Lane over here!


Stokey here.


Hi neighbour! I saw the guys in Buy 2 Save just hand over a bag of cash a while ago to a swaggering guy who just cut the queue. I was most offended at his blatant disregard for the queueing system. Also not too hard to work out where the Albanian hangouts are


Even though I know this shit happens, so bizarre to heat the shop where I buy my spices talked about on Reddit in this kind of thread


Even they are getting pushed out or at least challenged by the Albanians. Did you see the restaurant that burned down at Palmer's Green?


Don’t forget the Greeks!!


Comin over here, takin our jobs and our women and actin like they own the feckin place!


They invented gayness


And they're not even Greek.


My dads flat was on Green Lanes down nearer Newington Green. I remember once a bloke was thrown from a moving car hig tied naked. That was 2001ish


I read a book, can’t remember the name or the author now, but he basically said old school cockney gangsters got moved aside by Europeans that operate out of old shipping containers on the outskirts of London


Bloody Europeans, coming over here, stealing our jobs




Stealing our stealing


And our shipping containers


My stepdad owned/worked in many container yards around edges of London and he had no shortage of stories. Nigerians, albanians, polish...all up to shady shit.


Hatton Garden robbery made me think there must be some level of these old school criminal networks still going


Robberies have become more effort than their worth in most cases. Even well planned, complex ones tend to fail and result in arrests like Hatton Garden did. Fraud is the easy money spinner these days. Why rob a bank when you can buy electronic access data on the dark web to access their customers accounts without a single shot fired or a single hole drilled? And even if you get caught, it’s a non violent offence with low sentencing tariffs compared to armed robbery.




Pfft, they all said they had a code and tried to portray themselves as gentlemen but the vast majority were violent scumbags who didn’t care who got hurt. I’ve read dozens upon dozens of their autobiographies and almost without exception they all pull the “Never took liberties with anyone. Never hurt anyone who didn’t deserve it.” Those books are written with the tone they choose too. They think the stories make them look good, which should tell you something. It was originally nonsense to give them a sense of respectability. Later it’s nonsense to help them sleep at night after they reach old age and start thinking back to how many fucked up things they did to people and how many lives they ruined. I’m no angel, and I’m certainly in no position to preach morality to or judge anyone, just saying this whole “the good old chaps had a code” stuff is nonsense.


Yep. And the locals didn’t *respect* them, they were scared of them.


That's always what the ones who romanticise it miss. It wasn't respect it was fear.


There's a documentary on enforcers and there's this 1 guy from liverpool that catches people dealing in his gym, this huge dude on who knows how many steroids is absolutely terrified of him. 1 of them was found dead awhile later, 'fell' out of a window.


Like the noble Krays, moral paragons who loved their mothers and just so happened to extort businesses for protection on the side when they weren't gunning down people in pubs for imagined grievances. Loveable rogues.


"The code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules"


Mega comment


I used to know an old fella who, in his youth, used to fight for the Richardsons. He was of a similar view to you.


I went for drinks a few times with one of the extended family. Was pleasant.


Very true. I’ve always been amazed at the comments on threads about the Essex boys Range Rover shootings. Peeps talk about them like they were good lads. They were three bullies and complete c*nts.


I know someone who as a child was bounced on Reggie Kray's knee. however nasty the Krays were to their victims, they lived in a world where kids didnt get shot for carrying drugs and food parcels got dropped off by the gangsters for widows and the elderly when there were shortages in the shops If you were in the Krays line of sight you had good reason to be scared, but if you were honest and didn't do anything so stupid as challenging their position, you weren't in danger, and might even benefit from their protection


What if you ran a legit business in their territory? They'd leave you alone?


No, it’s nonsense. They’d extort you and as long as you played ball you’d be fine. Lovely guys.


It’s been a while since I’ve done drugs in London, but fucking hell if those Albanians didn’t have an incredibly wide spread and efficient drug delivery network. They were quicker than a Dominos




Yep. They are in fact not as violent as the Bham gangs I remember 20 years ago. A couple of Albanians got robbed (only for a few hundred quid though) and they just took it as business as usual and didn't come back for revenge. Astute business acumen I'd say lol.


Last week my mate was telling me about an old acquaintance of his from when he lived in Hertfordshire, and was claiming you could text him, and in 20 minutes, a guy would turn up with anything you wanted. I told him he was talking bollocks, but sure enough, about half an hour later we were stood outside a petrol station at 1am and a man turned up with a bag of coke. Must be a hell of a network they have, because we live in Leicester.


Sounds like too many movies…


The Getaway? Whoa. What a mad reference. They should remake that


Fantastic game, been replaying it recently for nostalgic purposes. A game very ahead of it’s time.


Can you play it on anything modern? I’d love another go now I’m old enough to actually know London.


I have noticed that people play it on a PC/PS2 emulator in 4K, but if you can’t be bothered with all that fuss, I wouldn’t see the harm of just getting yourself a second hand PS2 from CEX and a copy of the game and let loose.


Charley fackin Jolsen! Loved that game! Re: I think most of that Snatch cockney gangster types have moved out of London, think the Albanians are running the show. Source: middle class indie kid.


Dunno, but I know a guy who runs a boxing gym and he went to Eton so the demographic may have changed a bit.


Guy Ritchie also went to a posh boarding school, so the whole "Lock Stock" story is very much from the perspective of a tourist.


You get them in some areas. Liverpool and Salford are two areas of the North West with lots of the Irish connection white gangsters. Saying that though, these groups will still have to work with Albanians, Turks etc. Where I live in Manchester most street running of drugs is done by Caribbean, West African and Pakistani people. I’d say 80% of the drugs I’ve ever bought are from Pakistani lads. These are local lads though and I think they’ll get their supply from groups further up, probably from Albanian people.


Yep. I went to uni in the midlands and a lot of the dealers I knew were Pakistani lads. In my home town it's pretty much run by Albanians.


Same and we always had the stereotype of the Pakistani lads with their 'dealer' BMW's. We had the weird experience in our fresher year of a Pakistani lad joined 2 weeks later than everyone else. Got smashed on his first night, got a shit ton of coke out and bragged how his cousin was one of the biggest dealers in Birmingham. Weird thing? He was a straight A student and totally nerdy. He managed to get all his incredibly nerdy group on drugs, was a weird thing to see on a night out.


Plenty of Albanians based in Cheetham Hill who can get to any M postcode in 15 minutes, 24/7... So I hear...


These days it is more like Albanians and Serbians that control a lot of the black market and fear industry. The modern way is putting the ill gotten gains through fake storefronts and into the legitimate banking system.


More digital crime


Yeah they still exist. They're just not daft like modern day wannabe gangsters. They keep things underwraps and don't expose their business. Meanwhile the ones you see in the streets and news about getting caught are just wannabees. A proper gangster doesn't tell you their a gangster because to them it's just business.


Yeah, they just wear expensive tracksuits and recruit children and vulnerable people.


Albanians and Somalian’s run London.


Somalians also pretty big in Glasgow and Edinburgh in the drug trade.


Scotland has a much higher percentage of white people and as a result white criminals. Like if you look at crime statistics, they are vastly different to in England. Somali people are way more concentrated in London, Manchester, Bristol, although Somali people where I live in Manchester don’t seem particularly involved in gang violence.


They may well be but Somalian gangs are all over the UK and they travel up and down. Before covid there was a spate of shootings and stabbings in Edinburgh due to beef between somalians and Manchester gangs. Somalian are organised and all over the UK


Oh so like county lines? That makes sense


To my understanding the main distributor in Glasgow was a white family shipping the stuff in from Colombia. I didn’t know the Somalis had a sizeable foothold in Glasgow, if any.


My Mum looks after one in a care home. He knows the Krays and Barbara Windsor. Still carries a comb in his back pocket.


I worked with a reformed drug dealer on a prison release system. Not in London but in Glasgow. He was a dealer and worked with a big crime family who are portrayed like a mafia type. He said it was just to sell papers. Everyone kinda did their own thing and there wasn't a hierarchy as such. The market is so much bigger and with technology advances its harder to dominate the market like some guys did in the olden days. Laundering of money is done in almost every business you can imagine. He was actually a lovely guy. Really intelligent and personable. Had he been born in a different postcode he'd have been hugely successful. Life is a lottery.


I descend from a family of villains, most of the old boys are either very elderly or dead & my middle aged cousins have legit careers & businesses. I love to hear a low gravelly Cockney accent, reminds me of my dad. They’re all roadman chav scum now or pikies.


Most of them are doing big birds. The rest are dead, moved to Spain or out of the big cities and are living quiet lives. Long story short: the lucky ones mostly grew up.


Doing big birds? Blimey 😂


Doing a big bird means a long stretch of time owed in prison custody, like a 20+ year stretch for something like murder.


Big birds = London rhyming slang, short for birdlime which rhymes with time. As in a long time in jail.


Can't speak for London but my home town nightclubs and a few factories and some other business's are all owned by one family that got their money infamously through arson and violence and they are white English guys that are the closest thing I have encountered to the stereotypical old skool gangsters. The city I live in now is mainly Albanians running the drug game.


There's the Adams family, not them lol, but I'm not sure how active they are these days, from what I read about it, it's mainly Albanian gangs running stuff


I kind of think that the idea of loveable cockney rogues with sharp suits who look after their own and love their old mums is probably a bit of a myth. I mean, the Guy Ritchie films were a posh kid making overly stylistic ideas of what gangland was like. They all hang around in gyms wearing sharp suits trading snappy quips, It's like people thinking the mafia is an honourable underworld because they saw the Godfather when it's really just a bunch of thugs.


Not really no. If you go to Soho nowadays, you'll find pret a manger, slug'n'lettuce and all-bar-one everywhere. It turns out the corporate version of exploiting vulnerable people, avoiding tax and dodging responsibilities has priced the old fashioned criminals out of the market.


Who is shooting kids In Liverpool? Isn’t cockneys or Albanians


Dave Courtney is still quite a cheeky geezer! Also a complete gentleman who called me to send his condolences ahead of my dad's funeral. I highly recommend reading his book "Stop the ride, I want to get off" if you are interested in the 80's and 90's gangster era! Lenny McLean is also a good man but be prepared for a sad ending to his life story! Feel free to DM me, east end gangsters are a big interest of mine.


Dont think that Lennie Mclean was a gangster , more like a fighter who naturally got involved with villains


Stop the ride is one of the funniest books I've ever read, brilliant reading.


Craig Fairbrass and Geoff Bell are still about I believe.


I had the pleasure of meeting Craig once. Honestly such a gentleman and true geezer, loves his fans who like him for playing Ghost.


Albanians gangs have taken over the Cannabis production in the uk formally controlled by the Thais and Vietnamese been some massive bust in norther mill towns where they move into derelict mills posing as security or demolition firms ,had one recently in my sleepy Pennine hamlet reckoned to be productive in the millions


I think it's worth mentioning that some UK gangs do still operate. the Kinahans are Irish but have suspected ties to the world of professional boxing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinahan_Organised_Crime_Group The Adams family have been operating in London for a very long time.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerkenwell_crime_syndicate you've also got the Hunt crime gang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hunt_(gangster) The gangs that got crushed by police are typically the ones who made the most noise and drew the most attention. You don't hear about the careful UK crime gangs because a smart criminal does everything they can to avoid detection and apprehension.


If you are comparing them to movies I would guess closer to layer cake.