T O P
silveretoile

I also love the one that’s all “dear brother, fellow king, you know we have the best relationship. We’re buds, our dads were buds, our granddads were buds. Pls send gold. Maybe like 200 kg or something, I’m building a sweet ass temple. Xxx your best bud”


Fuckoff555

In this letter Kadašman-Enlil complains to Amenhotep III about not being given one of his daughters as a wife, quoting Amenhotep’s earlier response that “since earliest times no daughter of the king of Egypt has ever been given in marriage [to anyone]”. He urges that if he could not receive a princess, then a beautiful woman should be sent, but immediately follows up by proposing to exchange one of his own daughters for gold, needed to fund a building project he had in mind. > ...Moreover, you my brother when I wrote to you about marrying your daughter in accordance with your practice of not giving a daughter, wrote to me saying, 'From time immemorial no daughter of the King of Egypt is ever given to anyone' Why not. You are king you do as you please. Were you to give a daughter who would say anything. Since I was told of this message I wrote as follows to my brother saying 'Someone's grown daughters beautiful women must be available. Send me a beautiful woman as if she were your daughter. Who is going to say she is no daughter of the king. But holding to the decision you have not sent me anyone. Did you yourself not seek brotherhood and amity and so wrote to me about marriage that we might come closer to each other, and did not I for my part write to you about marriage for this very same reason, brotherhood and amity, that we might come closer to each other. Why then did my brother not send me just one woman. Should I perhaps since you did not send me a woman refuse you a woman just as you did to me and not send her. But my daughters being available I will not refuse to you. > Perhaps too when I wrote to you about marriage and when I wrote to you about the animals ... Now you need not accept the offspring of my daughter whom I shall send to you, but, send me any animals requested of you. > And as for the gold I wrote to you about, send me whatever is one hand as much as possible before your messenger comes to me right now in all haste this summer either in the month of Tammuz or in the month Ab so I can finish the work I am set upon. If during this summer in the months of Tammaz or Ab you send the gold I wrote to you about I will give you my daughter. So please send the gold you feel prompted to. But if in the months of Tammuz or Ab you do not send me the gold, and with it I do not finish the work I am engaged in what would be the point of your being pleased to send me gold. Once I have finished the work I am engaged in, what need have I of gold. Then you might send me 3000 talents of gold, but I would not accept it, I would send it back to you and not give you my daughter in marriage. [Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarna_letter_EA_4) The letter is now housed at the Vorderasiatisches Museum in Berlin.


Fuckoff555

From a [National Geographic article](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/history-magazine/article/pharaohs-amarna-letters-expose-politics-3300-years-ago) about the Amarna letters: > Some of the Amarna archive concerns the exchanging of royal princesses as wives. A rare example of an Amarna missive actually written by the pharaoh is Letter 5, from Amenhotep III to the Babylonian king Kadasman-Enlil I. In just 30 lines, the letter covers the principal themes of royal communication: effusive well-wishing, the dispatch of costly presents, and the pharaoh’s hopes to receive a Babylonian princess for his harem. (See inside one of Egypt’s biggest royal weddings.) > The pharaoh could expect to receive a wife, but a sign of Egypt’s supremacy was the pharaoh’s consistent refusal to give wives in return. An earlier dispatch (Letter 4) from Kadasman-Enlil I to Amenhotep complains at the injunction that “since earliest times no daughter of the king of Egypt has ever been given in marriage.” The Babylonian king chafes at the edict: “Why are you telling me such things? You are the king. You may do as you wish. If you wanted to give me your daughter in marriage who could say you nay?” His frustration is shared by other kings in the archive, and lays bare the reality of regional power: Egypt could call the shots.


tomjoad2020ad

Real “please advise” energy coming off this email


hatsoff22u

More like stone-mail am I right?


Neradje

S-mail


rkidc

He wrote it on his tablet


Leela_bring_fire

Or "as per our previous conversation"


DRAGONMASTER-

King was thirsty AF for some ladies with cat eye makeup


ChickenTitilater

he wanted to marry an egyptian princess to prove how powerful he was, or failing that he wanted a random egyptian woman so he could pretend that he was married to an egyptian princess. >Send me a beautiful woman as if she were your daughter. Who is going to say she is no daughter of the king.


icemann0

Typical “I need bobs and vagene” Twitter post


Kunstkurator

Such royal entitlement.


Powerful-Day-639

I want to play Ages of empires 2 right now with all that trading talks, I want to build a market for trading gold, food, stones etc


Barnaclebuddybooboo

selling one of his daughters for gold? what the hell. I always wonder how the morals of people in the past compare to ours. I know that people would / do do similar things in modern times, especially people in tough circumstances, but a king? jeeeeez


AddictionTransfer

Pfft. Bruh. A king would ESPECIALLY be the one to do it because he had gold to spare. Having a princess of a more powerful or equally powerful nation as a wife legitimizes your throne and position amongst other nations.


ShooteShooteBangBang

Marriages like that were very important in those days. Marrying the princess of Egypt meant that egypt wouldn't fuck with you and you got an ally. It's important not to impose our modern values and morality on the past.


SnooGoats7978

On the other hand, requesting wives from vassal kingdoms was a way of exchanging hostages. If the groom was nasty to the bride, her relatives could use it as a pretext for invasion. Royal marriages have always been matters of state, right up until the post-WW2 era.


Barnaclebuddybooboo

in any case, it's clear love wasn't much of a thing back then


star11308

He didn’t actually end up marrying off his daughters, as far as I know. Two or three of Amenhotep III’s daughters were already married to him, though fortunately it doesn’t seem as if they had children.


thegreatawaking2017

Old school version of thirsty texts


Sorry_Policy_1067

Hey! You forgot to send me that princess and handful of gold. No worries, just a reminder. Send me your princess and a handful of gold.


Scavengerhawk

Right here is the easy translation.


hatsoff22u

But if you send the gold later than I specified I’m gonna refuse it! But send the pretty woman though.


Numericist

Homie just needs the gold to pay his boys but he's really like "Fuck gold" and is thirsty for more wifeys, or something.


raised85

I bet you the postman had a bad back


njtrafficsignshopper

Imagine how many stamps you'd need for that thing


totalnewb02

definitely, how big and heavy is this letter anyway? and did Amenhomtep sent replies?


ting-en

I love how so many surviving artefacts from the ancient middle east are complain letters. People complaining about bad copper, people compaining about dying sesame not getting water, people complaining about their carriage being wrecked, people complaining about people complaining...


Wooster182

That’s a good point. Resources to communicate would probably be difficult to come by. You would have been more likely to send a note if you needed something.


Akavinceblack

“It’s always Ea-Nasir”.


ting-en

Love that scamp *"*[Other tablets have been found in the ruins believed to be Ea-nasir's dwelling. These include a letter from a man named Arbituram who complained he had not received his copper yet, while another says he was tired of receiving bad copper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir)*"*


Akavinceblack

He had gloating down to an art. ETA he’s one of two historical figures I wish someone would make a movie about (the other being John “Jack Punch” Perkins).


hamsterballzz

So… ancient Facebook.


fromthelandofdjel

Entitled in Ancient Egypt...


exbethelelder

According to the Bible, King Solomon married the "daughter of Pharaoh" and built a special palace for his pagan bride in order to keep the temple kosher. However, Amarna Letter EA4 proves it was not customary for the Pharaohs of Egypt to give their daughters to foreign kings as wives. Furthermore, not a single artifact has ever been discovered that proves Solomon's existence. If he was the wisest, richest and most powerful king in history, surely there would be much archaeological evidence. Some have theorized that Amenhotep III, the "Sun King" and arguably the wealthiest and most powerful Pharaoh in history, was the real life Solomon. The parallels between them are uncanny. 1. Both enjoyed a peaceful and prosperous reign of about 40 years 2. Both were ladies men. Amenhotep III married foreign princeses from all the nations that the Bible says Solomon formed marriage alliances with. 3. Like the Biblical Solomon, Amenhotep III was a master builder and his crowning achievement was the world's largest temple.


Bentresh

While EA 4 is indeed often cited as evidence that Egyptian princesses were not sent abroad, it is always hazardous to take such claims at face value. Phrases like "never had the like been done," "it was a deed never done," "the like had never been made," and so on are stock phrases in Egyptian inscriptions and in many cases clearly were not meant to be taken literally. The debate over Egypt's role in diplomatic marriages remains unsettled. Some have argued, for instance, that the young woman in Egyptian garb depicted on a vase of a king of Ugarit is a depiction of an Egyptian princess sent to the city as part of a diplomatic marriage. For more on this, see Marian Feldman's ["Ambiguous Identities: The 'Marriage' Vase of Niqmaddu II and the Elusive Egyptian Princess."](https://www.scribd.com/document/269827551/Feldman-Ambiguous-Identities-the-Marriage-Vase-of-Niqmaddu-II-and-the-Elusive-Egyptian-Princess-Journal-of-Mediterranean-Archaeology-15-1-2002-7) Additionally, Egyptian civilization changed quite a lot over the centuries, something I've touched on in [another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6xrbm5/ancient_egypt_is_often_described_as_the_longest/dmiynng/). We should be cautious about using a text from the 14th century BCE to (dis)prove an alleged practice from the 10th century BCE.


exbethelelder

There may indeed have been exceptions. Wasn't a Hittite prince even called to Egypt to marry the young widow of King Tut but was killed by the Egyptian army in route?


Bentresh

Yes, this is an excellent example, although it was unsuccessful. We don't actually know who killed Zannanza, although his father Šuppiluliuma certainly blamed the Egyptians for it. The scenarios involving a scheming, villainous Ay are almost entirely the stuff of fiction and have little grounding in historical sources. Travel was dangerous in antiquity, and the caravan (an attractive target, with so many luxury goods from Ḫatti) may have simply fallen afoul of bandits. Alternately, we cannot rule out the possibility that one or more members of the Hittite court was behind Zannanza's death. Given the Hittite propensity for intrigue, it is not at all impossible that one of Zannanza's brothers, such as Piyaššili/Šarrikušuḫ (the ruler of Carchemish) or Telipinu (the ruler of Aleppo), had Zannanza eliminated to prevent him from growing too powerful or reducing their status and power. Much of the importance of Carchemish and Aleppo lay in their strategic location near the boundary between the Egyptian and Hittite spheres of control in the Levant, and an alliance or even union between Egypt and Ḫatti would have greatly reduced their importance.


ZenerXCR

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#Historicity This gives a pretty clear picture on Solomon.


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ShizzelDiDizzel

The ancient lemme shagg


vVveevVv

My mann Kadasman-Enlil sounds like a scammer.


Ritari_Assa-arpa

I would love to see that pigeon what delivered this letter.


GandhisGrocer

I just wonder what it's wing speed velocity needed to be.


Ritari_Assa-arpa

It might be it went to gym.


valz_

Hope to see this in person one day. Thanks for sharing!


DudeWhatTheH

What a simp


CosmoFishhawk2

More like Kadašman-*INCEL,* amirite?? ​ ^(I'm sorry...)


[deleted]

I don’t get this joke. Is all misogyny incel? Surely some misogynists are quite the opposite.


CosmoFishhawk2

Just the fact that he was begging for a woman, and the pun on his name was irresistible. Don't think too deeply about it :p


AddictionTransfer

Does this really qualify as misogyny? Isnt misogyny defined by a hatred or intentional abuse of women? This seems like a cultural practice that even most women at the time wouldnt have seen as abuse or hatred. Some might even argue the princesses/beautiful women sacrifice their freedom but in return don't ever have to work and live in luxery with all their wants cared for and are simply expected to sleep with their husbands from time to time. Not something i would choose personally but plenty of women still marry ugly rich dudes in order to achieve a similar thing. Is it really misogyny if women of the time choose it over hard labor. Its definetly patriarchy but that doesnt mean its misogyny right?


[deleted]

> Not something i would choose personally but plenty of women still marry ugly rich dudes in order to achieve a similar thing. Yeah that's exactly like the stuff that still happens today when women say, "I'm against feminism, I don't want equal rights because I enjoy my privileges as a woman". It's sexism, benevolent sexism for sure... But an aspect of misogyny is also a belief that women should have a lower social status than men, and that's definitely a thing in this letter, inherently?


AddictionTransfer

I think most people who say they are agaisnt feminism in modern times (at least in the west) do so because they associate feminism with angry man hating hypocrisy rather than with the concept of "men and women should have equal rights". Theres a poll that asked americans if they thought men and women should have equal rights and like 97% of people asked answered yes, but only like 27% of the same people answered they were feminists when asked. Feminism has just taken on a new meaning in a lot of people's eyes. And the letter discusses practices that wouod have been the cultural norm at the time. It doesnt comment on or discuss the implimentation of those culteral practices. Its totally possible that at the time no one saw a problem with these culteral practices, niether men nor women. It was the norm for literal millenia. Women were often ill-suited for war and manual labor and this reality instilled in them that it was reasonable that since they were protected and cared for they should be subservient. Modernity has enlightened us to the folly of this arrangment, but ancient humans probably didnt give it a second thought. Many probably thought it was more than fair. So the question is, is it misogynistic for the king to adhere to the culteral norms he did not create and does not understand are wrong? Culteral norms that had been in place for thousands of years and were kept in place thousands of years afterwards? If it is misogyny it's certainly stretching the definition slightly compared to how the term is used today.


fuf3d

Babylonian King be like "Where my bitches at bro, you said you were going to send them but nah, I ain't seen not even a fake one". Also, "where my loot is? I done told you I been busy working on a work, and need some gold to finish it up with bling, what going to happen when I finish it and you ain't sent it, what good is it going to do me then? You could send 3000 talents of gold and if I am done, I'm going to send it right back to you, cause I don't need it but for the work."


MarshmallowHorns

Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three.


ShutUpYaLimpNoodle

The first written record of “nice guys”


CaptCrewSocks

What exactly is the practical way to read these letters and what seems even worse to have to deal with is it looks like there is writing on both sides.


princeofdamnmark

did he send the gold