T O P
stormbeard1

Private healthcare is a scam.


TzatzikiStorm

"She only had to be careful and not get cancer, why am I supposed to pay for it? That's communism"


shadowknows

AKA “American exceptionalism”


Za_Paranoia

Asked the question if there is something good about the American healthcare system on r/tooafraidtoask Answer were mostly "its absolutely great, almost 90% are insured anyways(what's wrong) " how the fuck do you live with people like that?


t-minus-69

Really? That's why America has the best hospitals, medical technology, and doctors in the entire world right? Because private Healthcare is a scam?


Josuke96

We would be at the same level of medicine with universal healthcare. But sure, go ahead and let people die because they’re poor. It seems you have no issue with that.


t-minus-69

Maybe those people should have had better jobs? Not my problem. And nope we would not be at the same level of medicine with universal healthcare. There would be far less money to be made in finding cures or treatment if there was no profit motive. It's literally our for profit system that drives medical innovation


NuttyLad

What are you doing in this sub? You clearly don‘t think that we love in a dystopia if you think for-profit-medicine isn‘t an inherently immoral concept.


currently-on-toilet

I think that person gets off on suffering. This sub is erotic to them.


aircavrocker

Trolling


RagingBeanSidhe

It's literally human curiosity and a desire for a better world that's driven medical innovation since the dawn of mankind. Same with all innovation. Making it hyper- extractive and oppressive doesn't breed innovation, it funnels it to the profitable at the expensive off the greater good on a regular basis. See insulin prices.


the-wifi-is-broken

Yeah like I bet insulin would have like a dozen different cheap sources if the research wasn’t quashed by the people who profit from it


Wereking2

Yeah John Snow the father of germ theory wasn’t out for money when he discovered that it wasn’t Miasma making people sick but microscopic organisms in the water. He only realized this after people far away from a water well in London got sick so he used every tool he had to try and figure how that occurred.


zatch17

Someday I hope someone opts not to help you in your time of need Because it's not their problem So let's just twiddle our fingers until that diagnosis Disgrace of a human being


bbbbbeelzebob

Imagine if they need something really minor like a small blood transfusion but theirs just not enough blood because somebody else said "not my problem" and decided not to donate. Obviously this would be terrible and we definitelyyyyy shouldn't hope for it... karma is a bitch tho


smithe4595

Most breakthroughs in medical technology are due to government grants. These breakthroughs are then bought by private companies so they can profit. Most of the scientists making the new discoveries don’t have a profit motive. They either are passionate about science or about healing people. The profit motive is what leads to massive markups in healthcare that kills people.


anonaccount73

> Not my problem. No, it actually is very much your problem


Peacockblue11

It’s bizarre to me that you see this as a matter of deservedness. The reason that every other first world country has a social safety-net to provide access to food, shelter, education and healthcare is because they recognize these as **human rights**, not something that can be “earned” or “un-earned”. To witness a person dying of cancer and categorize them as a person who doesn’t ‘deserve’ care is truly vile. How can you claim to love your country when it allows its citizens to suffer?


InsGadget6

"something something I'm clearly a giant asshole something"


average_astronomer

The researchers who finds a cures or makes a vaccines dont become a billionaire, it's the CEO of a pharmaceutical company who does. And they can make more money off crushing smaller companies or buying them out then they would trying to further medical innovation.


hey_its_drew

This is, again, ignorant and wrong. The vast majority of medical progress is due to state investment in higher education’s pursuit of care improvements. Private healthcare has focused much more on chronic issues rather than cures too, for that matter. Because repeat business(ongoing treatment models) is more profitable than restoration. That’s why they love pharmaceuticals so much.


Jordan_the_Hutt

"Maybe those people should have had better jobs?" Do you realize society couldn't function if everybody had "better jobs?" No teachers, cooks, store clerks, dock workers or farm hands, means no food, goods, or education for all those people with "better jobs." The while point if living in a society is to provide services for each other.


metro-mtp

Not to mention that there are plenty of people who actually *want* to do those jobs, but are dissuaded from doing so because they’re seen as less respectable and therefore get paid way less, even though they make up the backbone of society. Everyone can play a part in making the world a better place in some way but you have to give them the dignity to be able to do it regardless of what their field is. Mindsets like T-minus only make it harder


kuldan5853

I just got a food delivery by a guy who makes probably less than 1/4 of what I do for my job. Guess what? When he's sick, he's going to the exact same doctor than I do, and if he gets seriously ill, we'll be treated in the same hospital. And I really think this should be so normal that it shouldn't even be a point of debate.


TheW0lvDoctr

No it isn't, hospitals aren't the ones finding cures and making scientific discoveries, scientists are, in labs, almost completely separate from the profit of the healthcare system. If anything universal healthcare will prioritize innovation, as innovation if the only way they will be able to sell their product and make money instead of now where they can just hike up prices on existing drugs to make profit. If all the profit a pharma company made went back into R&D, you may have a point, but it doesn't, a vast majority lines the pockets of the rich elite who bask in the "glory" of selling insulin at the price of a house. You either vastly misunderstand the system you are talking about or you deliberately want people to suffer and are spitting half baked excuses


Gonomed

Better jobs? Let me guess: Your "job" is being unemployed and spending your school lunch money on Bitcoin or GME or whatever the pump n' Dump of the week is, hoping it will make you a millionaire in 5 years. It won't.


rotetiger

As far as I remember the first vaccine came from Germany (Biontech). They have a governemental healthcare system. How do you explain that? Btw: the Biontech girls&guys are former immigrants :)


freekorgeek

You’re a piece of shit. - signed a guy with a good job who also wants other people to have healthcare regardless of their employment status or class. God you fucking suck


ash347

My brother got leukaemia in Australia as an adult. His medical bills were over $1,000,000. He didn't pay a cent and received state of the art care and has been cancer free and debt free heading towards his 30s. He had a decent job, but almost no person in their 20s or any age would be ready to pay that. What good is medical innovation if normal people can't afford it? Also - a better job?? So many jobs that don't earn much money are still essential. Grocery store workers, cleaners... You saying these people don't deserve to live if they get cancer?? It's their own fault for not having a better job?? You need these people!


BobAndVergina

Maybe you should’ve considered having better parents so that they wouldn’t have raised such a bitch. Profits don’t drive medical innovation lmao. It does if the system encourages it. Cuba has nearly found a cure for lung cancer


ravenously_red

The creator of insulin didn't put his name on the patent. Medical innovation isn't driven by greed. You're a dunce to think this.


SoManyWasps

kys


NatoBoram

While this is effectively what the other guy said to everyone that works public facing, including teachers, saying the quiet part out loud like you did will get your account suspended pretty fast.


SoManyWasps

Eh.


DooberNugs

Shit, unless you're a millionaire, you can't pay for cancer or surgery. Even people who have "good jobs" can have shitty health insurance, especially if they're self employed with a small business. Hospitals charge insane amounts to milk money out of the insurance companies, which people pay for to avoid having to pay out of pocket for medical care. Both hospitals and insurance companies profit. Regardless, it comes down to if you believe healthcare is a human right. Should that woman who was shot in a robbery get medical attention if she doesn't have insurance or a white-collar job? Or should we just let her bleed out? I mean, she doesn't have the money, so she deserves to die, right?


NoiceMango

You disgust me.


woodhead2011

Maybe those people should get better jobs then. The USA already has universal healthcare because hospitals can't legally turn away people even if they can't pay.


Josuke96

Having massive debt from a life saving hospital visit is the way to go in your view? Nice take. I’m going to politely disagree, and point out that you would pay less in a slight tax increase than you ever would having to pay for your own private insurance. And you would also be able to visit your doctor or get a surgery free of cost instead of always having a deductible.


FactPirate

[you know the US ranks dead last in healthcare quality compared to a majority of western countries right?](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/) and those other countries citizens pay nothing except tax for the most part?


t-minus-69

That quite simply isn't true lol we have the best medical care money can buy. That's why Canadians flock to our country by the thousands every year to get medical care at our world class hospitals because they can't get it in their own country


RagingBeanSidhe

Oh no you wandered off! r/LostRedditors


RagingBeanSidhe

That's what you're told, friend. Doesn't make it true.


t-minus-69

Hmm that's why so many Canadians and Europeans come to our country for our top notch healthcare right? Healthcare they couldn't possibly find anywhere else?


OscarGardener

You do realize a lot of Americans travel to Mexico and Canada for cheaper treatment?


malogan82

That reminds me, I have to make an appointment for my wife with Dr. Valenzuela for a fraction of the price the American equivalent is going to charge.


Atticusmikel

Either you're a troll or a brainwashed conservative. But this doesn't happen, except on very rare occassions where we have an experimental drug trial. But that's not exactly the norm. Canadian / European healthcare is generally much better, with lower wait times and better trained doctors...


TonyAbbottsNipples

Canadian here and very much prefer our system over the US system. But let's not pretend the quality here is anything special. We pay our doctors much less than the US so it is actually difficult to get and retain good doctors. In my province, it's almost impossible to get a family doctor, I haven't had one since I was a small child. Triage works, so if you really need help you can get it, but wait times of five or six hours in the hospital aren't uncommon and it's almost impossible to see a specialist or get a therapist. From what I've seen/heard, most European countries have far better health care than Canada. And I know from experience that Australia has better care and access than Canada too. The Canadian system doesn't bankrupt you, but it's not exactly working as intended.


nevergonnasweepalone

>Australia has better care and access than Canada too. I was just reading your comment and thinking to myself that we have a good system here in Australia and hoping your comment wasn't an indictment on universal health care in general and then I saw this bit. I'm sad Canada's system isn't doing so well.


TonyAbbottsNipples

Here's some data. Canada's access to doctors is the worst in the OECD. And it's not even either, Canada's health care is provincially managed and the poorer provinces have far worse care than the richer provinces, so it's still an inequitable system even though it's "universal". https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/242e3c8c-en&_csp_=e90031be7ce6b03025f09a0c506286b0&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country


Alleycat_Caveman

They do that because their money better allows them to "skip the line" as it were. You're only mostly wrong, tbh. It's true, USA had the best healthcare in the world *FOR THE RICH*.


wastedmytwenties

European here, we don't do that, that would be insane. What we do tend to do is talk about how we're so glad we don't have the American health care system. Genuinely, that's a near daily conversation amongst Europeans. Your health care system is famous for being actual Hell, why would anyone want it when we have great free healthcare and always have.


BobAndVergina

Well yeah, rich people who can already afford it do that. I literally googled your claim and I found nothing. Literally all info I find is on millions of people traveling AWAY from the US to get cheaper healthcare. It’s often better too


StarksFTW

In fact a lot more Americans go to Canada and Mexico for health care treatment then the other way around. The only euros or Canadians that come here are insanely wealthy old money people who want to get treated at a place that doesn’t let poor people in. You’re either just trolling or are one of the single stupidest creatures on this planet so much so I doubt you are a human as that would collectively diminish the species as a whole. You’re like a 0 to average when everyone’s at a 90.


NatoBoram

We don't, go fuck yourself.


Caterpillar-Usual

I love how one side is providing links and supporting evidence, and the other side states their feelings believing that's sufficient to make those feelings facts.


FactPirate

⠀⠀‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎⠀⣠⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠈⠉⠙⠻⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⠇⠀⢀⣴⣶⡾⠿⠿⠿⢿⣿⣦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⣀⣀⣸⡿⠀⠀⢸⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⣾⡟⠛⣿⡇⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣷⣤⣤⣤⣤⣶⣶⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠀⠀ ⢀⣿⠀⢀⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⣿⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⢴⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣆ ⢸⣿⠀⢸⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⣿⡇⣀⣠⣴⣾⣮⣝⠿⠿⠿⣻⡟ ⢸⣿⠀⠘⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠉⠀ ⠸⣿⠀⠀⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠻⣷⣶⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⢠⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣛⣛⣻⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣀⣀⣀⣼⡿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿


ScaryYoda

My EYYYYYYYYEES!!!


[deleted]

Canadian here. i don’t know anyone who is racing to go to the us to pay hundreds of thousands when we can get the same healthcare. If you’re gonna lie maybe don’t use a popular country so no one will call you out on it.


LesserTrochanter

The best medical care *money can buy* And tough titties to everyone who doesn't have money, right? You do realise that for a country to have the label "best healthcare in the world", it need to be for *everyone*, not just those who can pay? A healthcare system that lets most of the population go bankrupt or just die simply to pay for it *cannot* be the best by any measure.


Waytooboredforthis

Obviously a nonprofit (R.A.M.) that started as a way to provide healthcare to developing nations deciding to refocus to serving almost exclusively in the US must mean we have the best healthcare system in the world.


DooberNugs

Oh cool, got a link?


abruzzo79

You're delusional. That isn't true at all.


Gugnir226

Isn't there a massive medical tourism thing in America?


woodhead2011

Why Europeans and Canadians go to the USA for healthcare then? Ask Mick Jagger why he used American healthcare instead of British when he needed surgery.


kalez238

AHAHAHAHA As someone who moved from the US to Canada, FUCK the US medical system and all its bullshit. It is awesome here!


[deleted]

Right? Like why use canada of all places when our healthcare is great. When my mom was dying of stage 4 cancer, we never paid a dime. And we even got meal vouchers and gas money and a hotel room so we didn’t have to worry about anything except being there for our mom in her last moments. Meanwhile you have stage 4 cancer patients working in the US because they literally can’t afford to stay home and rest while literally having a terminal illness


kuldan5853

I always am amazed when reading of pregnant women whose water broke while being at work, to be rushed to the hospital. In Germany, you wouldn't even be allowed to work up to that point in your pregnancy, but sent home with full pay months earlier... My wife works in a hospital, the day she knows she is pregnant she has to inform her employer so she can be sent home with full pay for the whole pregnancy - she actually is not allowed by LAW to work in her job while pregnant (X-Ray tech).


inthrees

Most medical research is accomplished using public funding, and then privatized. So 'the best hospitals (not even true), medical technology, and doctors (soo many immigrant doctors these days, welcome new friends!)' are not because private Healthcare. It helps to know a little bit about something before you go all chest-pushy-outty about it.


pyrrhios

> That's why America has the best hospitals, medical technology, and doctors in the entire world right? We don't.


Kurwasaki12

It has the best healthcare for those who can afford it, and even then it’s price gouged to hell.


pyrrhios

The US does not have the best healthcare, even for those who can afford it. Depending on what the health issue is, those that can afford it do go to other countries. A lot of times, it's even cheaper to take a surgery vacation to another country for some of the more routine types of care.


[deleted]

If we had the best health care this woman would already have a new liver.


abruzzo79

That's demonstrably false. Our healthcare itself is roughly equivalent to that of other rich countries but our access to it is unequivocally the worst. People living in other rich countries aren't being denied care like this. Like, at all.


Keepnasstychips

Lol, that innovation was all thanks to rich government subsidies for the manufacturers, and for the academic medical centers doing the damn research. Private insurance is just public insurance but with all the tax dollars going to the top. It’s “socialism” for executive pockets.


_Terrible_Advice_

We have a maternity death rate that rivals third world countries. That's not good health care.


hey_its_drew

I mean, that’s statistically not supported. We probably actually do have some of the best facilities and talent in the world, but… Our healthcare system puts a lot of financial hurdles between us and care in the first place(much less top tier care) that effectively makes it reactive rather than preventative, which is whole sale an inferior care model. Especially because the consumers themselves judge and exercise their tolerance toward their condition too much to avoid paying rather than deferring to a doctor when issues arise, often leading to medical intervention coming too late. We have worse health outcomes than a lot of the rest of the first world nations in the world because of this, and because healthcare facilities tend to follow money our medical distribution geographically is biased against poverty or even lower middling economies like most of the south, which critically worsens the issue. Private health insurance in particular is truly pretty indefensible. There’s really next to no benefit whatsoever, and a lot of exacerbation on pricing models across the industry in fact due to it. You could defend other parts much more substantially, but even they can pretty cleanly be marked for putting too much on private models without actually providing incentives for that to make sense. In other words, you’re not just black hearted and ghoulish(I read your other comments), you’re ill informed and lacking anything worthwhile to say on the issue. So if you’re confused the downvotes, it’s because you’re not quite as sharp as you think in the first place. Not because you’re receiving prejudice for defending private business. There absolutely is valid arguments to make we’ve taken privatization of this industry too far, and given way too much credit for its contributions while neglecting that state funded academic investment across the country has absolutely contributed much more significant strides in care overall quality than the private sector.


kuldan5853

There's basically two different problems at play with many Americans on that topic: 1. They don't care about access for everyone, as long as THEY themselves have decent access, they don't care about the less fortunate or even worse, the "plebs". He has put that out very eloquently by his "they should have gotten a better job" comment. Having a Job at all should not be a gatekeeper to accessing medical help! 2. Americans have "Insurance", but that Insurance is hilariously bad - and they can't envision that another country has something that is called the same (Insurance), but functions completely different or \*gasp\* better. Look at Germany. Co-Pays? Deductibles? Those words don't even translate to German for most cases\* Hell, I recently got an MRI for undefined knee pain that only occurred when sitting in the back seat of a cramped car, because my GP wanted to rule out some rare condition that could worsen over time - waited less than two weeks and paid nothing. I also caught the classical Influenza a few weeks ago, and I got a PCR test, two weeks of sick leave at my full salary and my medication for a total of less than 20€ combined. \*There's exceptions with elective things like ceramics for dental work etc., and we pay a very small co-pay for medication (usually 5€ per filling).


stormbeard1

Ooft look at that ratio.


CHark80

That's like saying America doesn't have any homelessness cause Bezos owns 5 mansions


GrandCTM25

It’s absolutely a scam when you’re forced into debt for life for having the chance to access those services


average_astronomer

Ok so, America is the richest country in the world who spends the most money on healthcare out of everyone. And I'm assuming you're using that logic to say you guys have the best doctors technology etc, thing is, you also spend the most by far on administration, instead of actual technology, doctors, etc. This results in you guys having a worse system for more money, and there have been various studies that have shown that it would actually be cheaper for Americans to have a universal healthcare system without having to compromise the quality. (if you are interested in having a proper discussion I am willing to send you the links to the articles and studies that explore this). Now I'm assuming your main concern with a universal healthcare system is two things, extra cost for you even if you aren't using it, and a decrease in quality, however we already talked about how you wouldn't need to sacrifice the quality, so let's talk about taxes. You would pay more in taxes. Thats just how it works, however, you would end up saving money when compared the the amount you'd no longer need to spend on insurance, so not only do you end up with a system that won't banktupt you for getting in an accident, but also provides quality care at a lower price due to the efficiencies of less administration among other things. I'm really sorry everyones been downvoting you to no end and acting like you're a crazy person, I don't think you are, I just want to try to have a civil discussion about a very important topic. For context I live in Canada where we have a universal healthcare system, which I will admit has its flaws with one of the biggest ones being the long wait times due to not enough funding, however the hospitals and staff are top notch and if I ever hurt myself the first thing I think about won't necessarily be the financial consequences, which is quite nice.


UserOrWhateverFuck_U

You need a passport.


Perfect_Inflation_70

Y’all consume half of global healthcare spending, you’d want a few bells and whistles to go with it.


di_zaster

We don't have the best tech, doctors or hospitals what are you on?


slavicslothe

Our universities accomplishments have nothing to do with insurance companies taking advantage of consumers. Insurance premiums do not support medical advancements. They also pay a prorated rate for what they cover. Hospitals shell out 90% discounts at times because some coverage is better than none.


BootyThunder

Yep! And wouldn’t it be great if anyone could actually access that cutting edge medical care? Having the best in the world doesn’t count for shit if it’s not accessible by everyone. Until the homeless dude on my stoop can get the medical care he needs, we as a country have NOTHING to be proud of.


kuldan5853

"We have the best Yachts in the World. World Class. True luxury. Best Yacht Builders, Boat Designers, everything. #1! USA!" "Okay, but how do I get my Yacht?" "That wasn't the question, right? We HAVE it, who said you can play with it?"


kiridoki

Most educated lib on reddit defending the predatory healthcare business making money off of human suffering. Get your head checked bud.


Virtual_Smile

you actually beliefe this bs?


TheDrFoster

That's because of science. It doesn't matter if we have the best of the best as far as equipment staff and facilities, if you can't afford it or go into debt for the rest of your life for a life saving treatment. When money is the end goal instead of public health, the majority of this country are left out and left for dead if they get sick. Alternatively, please give me or anyone else a logical, moral explanation as to why that person's insurance would need to deny coverage for an organ transplant based on the specific hospitals involved.


philomathie

Why do you have worse healthcare outcomes than countries that spend half as much then?


Jarnvir

Yes


VostroyanAdmiral

>Diamond hands pfp = shit take Glad you're following the formula; idiot westoid.


jankyjellybean

Absolute hell world with no redeeming qualities


wasteoftimereading

Luckily the rest of the world hasn’t adopted the ass-backwards insurance practices of the US. **USA**🇺🇸™️ - *where freedom ain’t free and insurance doesn’t insure.*


jankyjellybean

When I read that Boris and the conservatives were trying to privatize the NHS, I shit my pants because I was worrying that this hellish system was gonna spread fast.


Attention-Scum

People have been warning the British public about this for at least twenty years that I can remember. Mark Thomas was talking about this even before. No one wants to believe it or even consider it could be true but there is no NHS. It's finished. You might not see the full effects for another decade and maybe by then 30 metres of seal level rise and mass starvation caused by climate change will mean you no longer give a shit about whether or not you can get a GP appointment but who knows?


Educational-Warthog2

Actually it’ll probably still not hit even then. It’ll be worst because you will care about health care and you won’t be able to get it AND the sea level will have risen.


loki5832

I am terrified during every election at the thought of my country stepping closer to that nightmare


jankyjellybean

Just remember that if anyone tells you that they heard that service is quicker here, remind them that for poor people, wait hours can be 4 hours for a checkup. And people quit trying to save black people pretty quickly after which they charge their family exhorbitant fees for failing to save their loved one. Oh and a lot of people had to pay for the vaccine, which is part of the reason why a lot of non-conspiracy theorist people haven’t gotten it.


heresacleverpun

Not to mention there's no rhyme or reason in the prices the hospitals/ insurance companies put on services. My father had two identical hip replacements 6 weeks apart. Same hospital, same surgeon, same everything. The first surgery's itemized bill listed a "radiology" charge of $432. The second surgery's bill listed a "radiology" charge of $200 and an "X-ray" charge of $36. When I called to clarify it, the billing dept told me, "The charges are based on the service codes the doctors and nurses put into the system and sometimes one nurse might enter a code that amounts to one dollar amount and a different nurse could enter a different code for the same service, which would result in a different price." I insisted on talking to her supervisor and that woman explained that the charges were different because his first surgery was "in-patient" and the second one was "out-patient". (He had stayed overnight for both surgeries.) When I asked her how the hell a hip replacement could be considered an "out-patient" procedure, she says, "Well, different people have different definitions of 'in-patient' and 'out-patient'." WHAT!?!?!?


medhelpp

It's all about "Black people are always the victims" with you huh. Um, Wow.


jankyjellybean

American Bar Association: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-state-of-healthcare-in-the-united-states/racial-disparities-in-health-care/ Also American history since the dawn of the country.


utopiav1

Dude you obliterated him.


medhelpp

"Obliterate"? Apparently it's too much for you people to handle when somebody doesn't reply immediately because we have jobs while you're mooching off your mommy's basement. Talk about embarrassing.


utopiav1

Ah the bad-faith arguments are strong with this one: 1. [Attack the person and not the point being made](https://fallacyinlogic.com/ad-hominem-abusive/) 2. [Redirect the conversation to be about something completely unrelated (in this case, our economic situations)](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/red-herring.html) 3. [Make a false and unsubstantiated claim as to my character in an attempt to discredit me](https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/ad-hominem/#ad-personam) 4. [An attempt to ridicule me based on your falsely-asserted assumption in order to discredit anything I say](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/appeal-to-ridicule.html) You're a racist and you've done nothing to disprove that


medhelpp

Black lives aren't worse than they were in the past. So what are you still complaining about?


jankyjellybean

"we aren't whipping and lynching them anymore at least! Nothing must be wrong then" pfffffft


medhelpp

When did I ever "whip or lynch" a black person? Oh boy, the amount of assumptions you make about another person you don't even know truly defines your idiocy. Lmao. Listen to you using quotes like you think you can read another person's mind or something when you just make yourself look like an idiot LOL


jankyjellybean

14 days to reflect and still doesn’t understand how bad even the before times were.


shpanky

Jesus Christ dude. Can you be more hateful??


medhelpp

Oh boy listen to this "know-it-all" tell people they're being "hateful" lmao is this the most hypocritical response ever received from an idiot or what


fedback

Hello from Chile, and all it took was a bloody UDA backed dictatorship.


patb2015

Insurance works really well for property because the banks are involved. Your car note needs comprehensive insurance.. your mortgage needs property insurance and the bank is going to get paid and the insurance company knows the bounded risk But health insurance is out of control. You can’t total grandma and you can’t tear down a father and build A new one… so you spend millions keeping grandma on a ventilator and you spend millions keeping daddy on a transplant regimen.. The solution is ending billing and making this a public service


auntieup

Blue Shield of California refused to cover an MRI for my sister last fall because “it’s near the end of the year and lots of patients request procedures like these who don’t really need them.” It was early October and she could barely walk at the time. She finally got the MRI last week. FOUR MONTHS after her doctor first requested one.


Ripoldo

Yah but at least you didn't have to stand in a line like in commie Canada /s


Hyperi0us

I love this argument from inbred rednecks cause you can just ask them how long the wait time is to make an appointment for a basic physical with their PCP. 99% of doctor-related shit here is booked like 3 months out if you're lucky.


diox8tony

Yep. Wait times are horrible in the usa


gunner7800

I have BCBS, I’m thoroughly unimpressed with them. My Rx plan goes through BCBS to CVS Caremark, they’re even worse.


TheJokersChild

That whole CVS/Aetna thing can't be helping you.


TalkativeRedPanda

CVS Caremark is AWFUL.


hazedday

"PrIvAtE iNsUrAnCeS aRe ThE bEsT sOlUtIoN fOr ThE cOnSuMeR"


yaosio

The capitalist response to this is "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." They really don't give a shit how many people are murdered by their "good" healthcare system.


AdditionalTheory

Had BCBS a few years back when I started getting a worrying pain in my groin. The doctors did a few tests and came back with nothing besides wear looser clothes for a bit. Over $2k bill. Sure insurance paid a very minor amount, but the irony is that if saved my monthly premiums instead of pay for insurance, I could have paid that bill outright including what insurance took off. Instead I was still stuck with the bill and had to go into debt pay it off all for advice that amounted to wear sweatpants if you can for a bit


OPengiun

Yep--I was paying 700 dollar premiums each month. Got an endoscopy, and paid 1400 out of pocket. Insurance covered like... 500 or something. I should have just saved my money and not had insurance to begin with. Edit: I should have mentioned that was with Cigna PPO, not BCBS... so imagine how little BCBS would cover.


HollywoodHoedown

$700 a *month*? Goodness gracious. Hearing these stories makes me very glad I never left Australia for the US like I dreamed of when I was younger.


OPengiun

Yep, 700 a month. Now my premium per month is like... 450, but the government is paying part of it (tax credits/subsidy)... so I only pay a portion of that. But this new insurance I have, BCBS, sucks big fat horse cock.


HollywoodHoedown

That’s insane. A couple years back I had microsurgery to repair slashed ligaments, arteries, and tendons in my wrist. The only private healthcare I had was ambulance insurance ($35/year). Two night stay, surgery, anaesthesia, monitoring, and four months of rehab to get my hand back to working normally… I paid $0.


OPengiun

Lucky. That in the USA would easily be at least 10k. EASILY.


HollywoodHoedown

Some of my American buddies (when I went into more detail) guessed it would be six figures. Fuck. That.


heresacleverpun

I had a dentist that was covered by my insurance, so I only paid $20 co-pays whenever I saw him. However, every couple months I'd get a bill in the mail from my insurance company telling me I owe a random amount of money (sometimes $200, sometimes $2,000) for procedures I'd never had or for unknown procedures that I couldn't decipher the abbreviated nonsense listed on the bill. (This also happened to several of my family members who saw the same dentist) Every time I called his office for clarification, the secretary would tell me it was a "mistake" and to just "throw the bill away". This went on for years. Shady, right?!?


OPengiun

Yep, they were doing an in insurance scam. Likely charging your insurance for bogus shit he knew they would cover. I had a psychiatrist do that. Their lab testing partner was a scam business. They charged my insurance 10k for a blood test + urine test, but I never took a urine test. I poked and prodded at them and the secretary would give me the run-around too. "Oh, don't worry about that bill, hon. Just ignore it, it happens all the time." I did some research on the lab testing partner, and the guy who owns the company had like 13 active lawsuits against him, and he creates then shuts down businesses all the time, operating under LLC's until they're smashed by suits. 'Murica!


patricktoba

I have BCBS. They do nothing. Literally nothing. When I see my co pays on anything its like I don't even have insurance. I'm just paying them to tell me that I need to pay my own damn bills completely out of pocket. Burn all of this shit to the fucking ground. Ban private insurance.


OPengiun

>Burn all of this shit to the fucking ground. People keep saying this, but I don't read any news articles of people doing this?


FPSXpert

Because this is America, modern day Sparta, they'll send a kill squad to shoot your dog and flashbang your baby if you actually try that.


larrysdogspot

At least your free, right?


[deleted]

send help


hazedday

🤣free to pollute the planet and burn through resources, but not free to access subsidized food water shelter or healthcare Who cares as long as gas is cheap and I can buy 10000 products that don't really help with what matters and take thousands of years to decompose? AMERICA, F*CK YEAH I swear I'm gonna move to Finland or Norway in the next few years


Ian702907

Gas is cheap? I just paid $120+ for 30 gallons.


hazedday

Yes...my facetiousness was trying to illustrate how ridiculous people are for freaking out about gas prices going up because for some reason the United States has developed a structure of terrible public transportation and layouts that almost demand every individual own their own car So inefficient...and car companies' wet dream...and now we have hydraulic despotism centered on gasoline dependency


Ian702907

Honestly, it's why a became a mechanic. So many cars on the road, and they're all going to break down at some point. Don't like my job? That's why toolboxes have wheels... Can literally go anywhere and get a job in a few days if I needed to.


asian_olli

In Finland right now, regular gas is around 1,85 Euro per litre. This translates to 7.80usd per gallon. And we dont even have the most expensive gas in europe, that would probably be Netherlands where i have seen 2.15eur per litre, 9.06usd per gallon. I was smiling my ass off when i filled my rental challenger for like 25 bucks in the US, you almost never see such a car here. I pay something like 80 dollars for a full tank here. No wonder everyone here drives 1.6 litre econoboxes. That rental challenger was obly the 3.6l v6 but man i miss that powerful feeling and the rumbling sound. Enjoy your v8's while you can is what i am saying i guess.


shpanky

Question. How much do you actually drive per week? Just curious as I would assume it’s likely less than most Americans. Not a criticism but our country is large and has been co-opted by automakers to believe that automobiles are the only reliable transportation.


heresacleverpun

Not to mention, Americans will drive from one parking space to another one 50 yards away just to go from store to store in the same plaza where all the stores share a massive parking lot.


asian_olli

Google "the actual size of countries" lets you overlay Finland over the US so you get an idea, we HAVE space! ;) And remember we only have 5,5 million inhabitants. I live in a smaller city of about 60k people, but work is pretty far from the city for me so i have a 80 mile round trip to work, which i think is unusually long for my country. Transport here is surprisingly similar to the US outside major cities. You need your own car to get anywhere at all. I think i drive like 10k to 15k miles in a year whick is maybe a bit above average. But yeah, the idea that all europeans can bike everywhere like the dutch is not true for Finland.


shpanky

Thank you so much! I've long considered leaving the USA entirely and was curious.


asian_olli

No problem! Feel free to send a pm if you're wondering about anything else. Happy to tell you about my country!


heresacleverpun

Ya, well, "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."


electris00

According to the article, now she has to drive 6 hours south to a mayo clinic hospital and hope she can get on their donor list.


AtomicPow_r_D

Gee, Rand Paul and the Ayn Rand worshippers always seem to be deathly silent at a moment like this. I wonder why? Maybe it's because their philosophy of "suck it up, Buttercup" doesn't actually work for real world situations. See, in their worldview, a mother with cancer is what they would call a "parasite". This pseudo-macho take on things resembles Germany's mindset in the thirties and forties. I can only hope that there are a few Americans left who see how this attitude has a significant downside.


clever-username3

Nah. See the problem with the system is too much government regulation. /s


OneTeaspoonSalt

They do know she'll stop paying premiums if she dies, right?


ImoJenny

Honestly someone needs to make a ticker, like the national debt clock. How many people have been killed by their health insurance today?


spicegrohl

pre-covid it was \~185 people a day, \~68,000 a year. now.. who fucking knows since the major cause of death from covid is untreated comorbidities. a LOT more though


FightForUnions

r/AmerExit


CarpeValde

Health insurance companies seem like the older kid from when you were little just inventing rules to bullshit games as a way to trick you out of your snacks.


unicornofapocalypse

Lucy holding the football.


heresacleverpun

Or just pushing you to the ground and taking your snacks without pretense. Then asking you for more money.


Plumbous

Pay $200/mo to be covered if any emergency happens to me. BUT, if that emergency happens I will still be liable for the first $10k of the medical bills. Oh and if I'm unconscious and the ambulance takes me to the wrong place I'm liable for all $150k of the medical bills.


unicornofapocalypse

BuT yOu HaVe FrEeDoM 🥴🇺🇸


[deleted]

Yeah we have the freedom to go fuck ourselves. 🇺🇲


luingar2

Quite frankly if I got done like this and knew I was going to die because of the actions of a fucking corporation, I'd use the last of my life to do some pretty damn targeted crimes. What are they gonna do, kill me?


beepbeepsheepbot

I remember when people were talking about death panels under Obamacare. But how is insurance ITSELF NOT CONSIDERED A DEATH PANEL?!??!


UnderdogRising

Death panels were here the whole time.


heresacleverpun

As were death pools. Anyone know what Vegas got for over/ under on Bob Barker?


Quinquilharia

The world is full of people who would pay for it for her if they could. But the people who could pay for it without batting an eyelash - they're too busy trying to build space yachts or overthrow democracy.


unicornofapocalypse

Dick rockets and underground safe houses, too.


heresacleverpun

Let's cross our fingers that we'll have a better health insurance system on Mars...


Volatile-Bait

"Yeah. We can save your life, but we aren't going to because of some nonsensical rule that we made up. Thoughts and prayers."


beebish

Barf


7duckswithmachetes

Let’s go capitalism 👏 Let’s go capitalism 👏 Let’s go capitalism


OGwalkingman

Murcia


UserOrWhateverFuck_U

Is this in the land of the free?


djluminol

That because morons want choice instead of options.


quotesthesimpsons

The GQP is a death cult.


AmbiguousFrijoles

I had BCBS a long time ago, they canceled my insurance the day before I gave birth due to a system error. They did not cover my my birth and reinstated my insurance the following month. I ended up with an $80k bill for an uncomplicated birth and 24 hour stay in the hospital.


philannethrowpissed

I don’t understand why our cousins across the pond put up with this shit! Get those scam artists to fuck! Absolute scummy bastards! A pox on them!


BioWarfarePosadist

What the fuck is "blue Certification?"


IreJay

Is... is no one going to talk about the odds her kids are going to pop this rare cancer? This kinda stuff is EXACTLY why i'm not reproducing


Georgey_Tirebiter

That's Capitalism. PROFIT MUST BE MADE AT ANY COST.


heresacleverpun

"Blue distinction" = these are the hospitals who are ready to play ball in any way we need them to in order for us to both make more money


truth14ful

Off topic but i love your username


FPSXpert

At this point it doesn't matter if it says bcbs / Aetna / whoever. They all are different sides of the same dice and might as well have the devil on them for a logo.


[deleted]

[удалено]


unicornofapocalypse

What kind of human being? A woman? A mom of 3? A person with cancer? A dying person? Which one?


Aquarian-Stargazer

Ignore the troll. They’re just trying to look edgy.


unicornofapocalypse

lol maybe so but I’m curious.


Aquarian-Stargazer

I get that.


StillSilentMajority7

She has a form of insurance that requires her to go to specific providers, which insurance do to ensure high quality service. She's not being denied a transplant. Grow up.


IrrationalFalcon

So now she's suffering with this life threatening condition while trying to find a new hospital, even though the one she was originally planned on going was just fine. It's a damn hospital. Unless you're in Iraq, I don't see why the surgery would go wrong


spicegrohl

yes, you fucking moron, i'm sure she's just too uppity to accept all the many livers on offer from bcbs's preferred providers.


RamblinRod_PDX

Agree with your sentiment, but the Inside Edition article seems a little suspect. Smells like click bait to me.