T O P
SlobMarley13

Removed as a violation of rule 4. This is just a "who would win?" post with extra steps.


NobleStealthephant

Tsara'noga the Outsider. ​ Ezekyle wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell.


Antigonos301

Oh man, I would love for that to be Tsara’noga’s introduction into the setting.


NobleStealthephant

It'd be hilarious. Abaddon mistakes him for a daemon, pulls his usual shit. Winds up with his skeletal system on the other side of the room and his sword snapped in half.


Feisty_Goose_4915

Trazyn


BattlingMink28

Throwing pokeballs at him lmao


GrandDukePosthumous

I don't know if it would qualify as a fight, but I expect a resurrected Curze would be able to kill him.


jaghatikhan_primarch

Kaldor Draigo


shellofbiomatter

Papa Smurf any other loyal primarch. Maybe Dante or Memphiston


Dax9000

As much as both Dante and Mephiston are much more powerful in lore than on table top, neither could really stand to Abadon. Unless, of course, they start hallucinating they are on the vengeful spirit...


shellofbiomatter

>they start hallucinating they are on the vengeful spirit.. So a rematch of sorts?


Mistermistermistermb

Link to ADB with an unpopular answer: [there is no answer](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/hmvm0l/comment/fx7sypp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ​ >I really enjoy these speculations, but I'd caution against looking for a definitive answer. Not just because the doubt and It'll go differently every time is one of those "sorta the point of 40K" things, but because a lot of work goes into there not always being an answer at all. We work in terms of being aware of every possibility and what makes sense in the context of whatever situation these characters find themselves in. So it's about credibility and possibility, not "The answer is X."


Giangis

I don't understand why this answer seems to be unpopular with people. It's the same in real life, just look at sports. Two top level competitors face off several times: sometimes competitor A wins, some other times competitor B wins. By the way, this question pops up once a week now...


Mistermistermistermb

Some people want certainty Weird in a setting that thrives on ambiguity but it is what it is


[deleted]

90% of versus threads are people wanting to feel validated about their subjective opinions throughs FACT AND LOGIC, and it works for most of fandoms not just WH40k.


Mistermistermistermb

Agreed, I don't think anyone suggested it doesn't go down in most fandoms just that a lot of other fandoms are more straight forward in their depictions


AlternativeEmphasis

Whilst that's true you can still likely be able to give someone who takes a majority.


Galifrey224

Its similar to Stan Lee's answer about who would win questions, "The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win!"


Mistermistermistermb

It is...I want to add on top that it does go deeper than: "I am writer I choose my favourite to win" Or even "I flip coin so x should win" There's a lot of work that goes into the context and circumstances surrounding each bout. It's almost never favouritism or down to stats


BobRawrley

Honestly this should be the answer to 90% of the questions on this sub. "Why does X race do this?" "Why did Y character do this?" "Why are X vehicles built this way, it makes no sense?" Because someone at GW decided that it should be that way. It's a made-up setting.


237583dh

Depends. Table tennis or darts?


Hendrik1011

Do you want to know who could defeat him reliably or anyone who might has chance to defeat Abbadon. Because the first list would be very short while I would say that the second one could be very long.


GoldLibArm

Colonel-Commissar Cotton Hill could kill fitty Abbadons


XAgentNovemberX

I killed fiddy tau


GoldLibArm

“I could only save three of my men: Stinky, Fatty, and Cadia. They were kinda like you fellas, only one of ‘em was from Cadia.”


MindYourStuff

Not Sigismund *Runs away before IF fans catch me*


Blinghop

You're not wrong. Though Abby himself admits the fight would (could?) have gone differently if Siggy was still in his prime. I just dig that story for showing the kernel of honor still buried in Abby. Signed, BT fan. (You can run...)


[deleted]

In the same book, Khayon makes also extremely clear that the Abaddon that Sigismund fought wasn't the same Abaddon he'd grown into after acquiring Drach'nyen and something a hundred of different chaos blessing. It was an Abaddon armed 'only' with his terminator armour and Talon of Horus.


Blinghop

Yeah, chaos buffs seem to get underplayed in people's minds, likely because the tabletop can't give them the room they should have for balance reasons. I have no idea if prime Siggy could take current full-power Abbadon. I would bet though, if anyone (non-primarch tier) could, it'd be him.


SweetAssistance6712

My buddy Jeff says he can


Em4rtz

I see Guilliman mentioned but I don’t think it’s a good fit. Guilliman in all honesty should absolutely murk Abaddon in a 1v1, but I hope they never actually have them fight like that and Abaddon is too smart to take that fight straight up. I could see a scenario where he outsmarts Guilliman and beats him by other means rather than physical dual


ChezzChezz123456789

He has a better chance winning a duel than out smarting the master strategist among primarchs himself


Em4rtz

I definitely get your argument as well, I’ve always considered Guilliman a master administrator rather than strategist though. Also if they buff Abaddon to the point where he can physically go toe to toe with Guilliman… they might as well call him Horus-v2 which Id rather they just bring back Horus at that point lol


HumaDracobane

Iirc the title of "best general" is commonly given to The Lion and Guilliman the Logistics Master.


Valor816

Eldrad


Tangyhyperspace

it would probably be really, REALLY situational, a lot of things can affect a fight so someone who lost to Abbadon one day might be able to beat him another day.


No-Strike-4560

I'm wondering now who would win abaddon or szarekh 🤔


BloodFartMoon

Easy peasy just have him on a tomb world with pylons and then deatomize him Given that Abbadon doesnt wear a helmet id say any necron warrior that can hit him in the face with its gauss weapon or a Deathmark should win


Cyted

So your answer is a normal necron warrior, from a distance, with a gun? Are you new to 40k?


BloodFartMoon

Yes i know it wouldnt happen cause it would be too lame and anticlimatic but hey its possible and *it would be funny*


samg789

Eldrad already did


Shadowrend01

Given all his power ups, there’s probably no one who can 1v1 him Sigismund came close once, but that was a long time ago and Abaddon has only gotten more powerful


Lost_and_the_Damned

Sigismund was also old as shit by then and even the other chaos space marines agreed that Abbadon only won (barely) because Sigismund was old as shit. In 30k, Sigismund, Corswain, Sevatar, Khârn, and maybe Amit or Raldoron all would have been more than a match for Abbadon. In 40k, I'd say any primarch would beat the crap out of him. Draigo or Mephiston might be able to get the job done too. I like Dante, but even he admits he isn't as fast as he used to be and he's even older now than Sigismund was. Khârn still might be able to beat him.


Da_Sigismund

Sig would've clean the floor with Abbadon in 30k


XAgentNovemberX

Kharn couldn’t even get close to killing him. Shit was a GG EZ situation for sig.


Da_Sigismund

If the Emperor transformed him in a saint, Chaos would've been fucked. Shame. Sig was the real deal.


Anggul

Again though, that was when Abaddon was still just a marine. Now he has the combined marks of all four of the great powers.


TheMoldyTatertot

Luft Huron


Jburli25

Surely any primarch would be able to take him on? Even the weakest primarch should be a match for the strongest of the astartes.


Shadowrend01

Not every Primarch was good at fighting. Of the surviving loyalists, Guilliman and Corax would likely go down to him. Russ and Khan will fair a better chance. Lion would have the greatest chance of beating him. Vulkan is an outlier. If his Perpetual powers work against the daemon blade Abaddon uses, he would win by attrition. If it doesn’t work, he’ll lose Abaddon is close to Primarch level himself now with the gifts bestowed upon him and his wargear


have_you_eaten_yeti

Gilligan, with the Emperor's sword, loses to Abbadon? Gtfo. I love me some good ol' Robot Girlyman memes as much as the next guy, but he annihilates Abbadon...unless the writer says otherwise, but that also means that just about anyone could beat Abbadon if the writer so chooses. Robotech punches the heads off of space marines with little effort and he has a sword that hard counters chaos. Also, I have purposely left every autocorrect "correction" of the Ultra Primarch's name, just for the lols. I don't have the excerpt on me, but I remember a scene with a pissed off Guilliman charging a group of WB and they were so shocked by the pure spectacle of a primarch bearing down on them that they actually FROZE UP. Sure, you say, but those are just WB. To which I say, yeah, that means they have "seen some shit" as the saying goes and also, this is Rowboat we are talking about, it ain't like he is one of the most intimidating Primarchs, and yet the sight of him charging is enough to make gene forged purpose built warriors who are used to seeing horror every damn day, *freeze up*. Primarchs are on a different level, even compared to Abby. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.


Shadowrend01

The Emperor’s sword may hard counter Chaos, but not even the Emperor could beat Drach'nyen. It almost killed him and took in his blood. If there’s a weapon that can go against the Emperor’s sword, it’s Drach'nyen


have_you_eaten_yeti

You are right and I had actually forgotten about that. Has Abby actually been shown wielding Drach yet, or is he still just "rumored" to have it? I'm not caught up on my reading all the way. That would definitely make things interesting. What happens if the Emperor's sword and Drach strike each other? Is the emp sword like just a really nice power sword "enhanced" by Emps, or is it some DAOT anti-demon relic? Not sure if that was clarified ever? I might just not be remembering it. Has Drach been weakened at all due to its bondage in the sword? Either way, you bring up a great point and Robot could be in real trouble, especially if Drach's influence is strong enough to keep Emps from pulling a "deus ex" to save his favorite tool, a la the fight with Morty. Good stuff!


Goldlizardv5

Solitaires? Phoenix Lords? Primarchs?


Shadowrend01

Maybe, no, depends on which one but unlikely


strangecabalist

A Phoenix Lord should be able to wipe the floor with Abby. These are the exemplars of power for a highly psychically gifted race. I get that they’re often used like Worf- but even against a Primarch, a Phoenix Lord should be able to give a hell of a showing.


Shadowrend01

Two Phoenix Lords lost to Dreadnoughts (Kharandras and Jain Zar). I don’t like their chances against Abaddon


broken_chaos666

How? Phoenix lords are basically eldar primarchs.


Shadowrend01

How were they beaten? Kharandras was punched through the chest and Jain Zar was stepped on


broken_chaos666

What sort of dreadnought was that


Shadowrend01

Castraferrum


broken_chaos666

Either dreadnoughts are stronger than I thought, or the phoenix lords aren't all they're cracked up to be


strangecabalist

But they shouldn’t is my point. They’re portrayed (in my mind) as way underpowered for what they are. I say this and I don’t even like the Eldar.


seabard

He is definitely not at Primarchs’ level, how does this garbage take get upvotes in Lore subreddit.


Shadowrend01

He’s marked by the 4 Gods, carries what is arguably the strongest Daemon ever around in a sword in one hand and has a weapon that has killed 2 Primarchs in the other. Even if it was a clone, he has already killed a Primarch on his own, outsmarted a Lord of Change and numerous other Greater Daemons and has the loyalty of the Chaos Primarchs and has beaten the best that the Imperium has sent against him. He is well beyond being a just a Space Marine now. He would have become a Prince a long time ago if he stopped tell the Gods to fuck off and leave him as he is


seabard

Do you even remember that Siegesmund fought equally against Abaddon almost got instantly killed by fucking Fulgrim in human form even after ambushing him ?( he would have if Dorn haven’t saved him). The fact that he is not Daemon prince exactly shows why he is not even near strongest being in 40k.


EmersonFletcher

If we go with what is in the setting there are a few I can think of. Captain-General Valoris of the Custodes Chapter Master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs As much as I hate this Captain Cato Sicarius If he ever crossed him Kharn and maybe Kaldor "I like Jumping" Draigo, however because of TTS Draigo will always be touched. None of them will beat him, but I can see these warriors going toe to toe and not get murdered immediately. Thank you for joining my TED talk. *Add word because words are hard


scivener

You forgot Mephiston? Seems to be vastly OP


Valor816

Trazyn could just lob a fucking charmander at him.


Compressorman

Guilliman


[deleted]

Prime sigismund


nowes

Technically hive fleet is a single entity, so I'd say that.


tbrzica

Fair fight? Any Custode with Silent Sister, and that would be fair regarding external backup ( Abby has four god's blessing). Guilliman without any problems, thats not even debatable. Solitaire - maybe. Abbadon is more matchup for most powerful named chapter masters.


Anggul

>Abbadon is more matchup for most powerful named chapter masters. I'd say he's in between them and the higher stuff. I don't think any normal space marine, even a chapter master, can reasonably hope to beat him alone any more. He's pretty juiced up. Powerful psykers like Mephiston could though. Chapter Masters aren't the real top dogs of space marines, Chief Librarians are.


Ginden

>Guilliman without any problems, thats not even debatable. I'm not sure about that. Abaddon has Drach'nyen, direct counter to Emperor's power. Mortal champion of Chaos, Luther, almost killed Lion, and he wasn't as blessed as Abbadon is.


TheMoldyTatertot

Personally I think luft huron would


Stolpskott_78

The guy with bigger plot armour


AmishWarlord08

Lore wise, Mephiston stands the best chance. Devastation of Baal and Darkness in the Blood show how unbelievably, overwhelmingly powerful he is. His physical strength and speed are incredible without even factoring in psychic power, as is his skill. When you factor in that he's unequivocally the strongest astartes psyker you realize he is less a warrior and more a force of nature. Crossing the Rubicon was a boost, but he got more of one by becoming the wellspring of half a minor warp god.


Da_Sigismund

Probably anyone with common sense and no regard for honor and similar things.


Slap_duck

Any named character with good selling models


FTWCWDIG

Anyone with the power level below old man sigismund,anyone above can kill him. So any custodes or primarch etc.


FemboyNurgle

There are a few obvious ones which should be quite easy fights like pretty much any primarch or any big thing like a Titan, Yncarne/Avatar of Khaine (if we forget how easily the avatar often dies and go by how powerful it should be) greater daemon etc. For less obvious people who could reliably beat Abaddon (like maybe 80-90% of the time) I think Trajann Valoris could do it. He’s considered to be the best warrior in the entire custodes, and by extension probably the whole imperium apart from Guilliman. Draigo could probably manage it just as easily as Valoris. For Xenos factions I think Eldrad would blast him with witchfire from really far away but lose up close. Farsight maybe but again not in melee. He can just fly away continuously while shooting Abaddon until he finally dies. Yvraine and Lelith Hespirax might beat him. I don’t think that many chaos guys could beat Abaddon except for maybe Kharn who does nothing but fight


Bigblock460

The emperor


SteelFaith

Any of the Daemon Primarchs would easily beat him. All of them are just immensely powerful without equal. Now the warp evolved and empowered version of Corax would wreck him. He's on the same level as the Daemon Primarchs. Guilliman using the Emperor's Sword could very likely beat him, and kill Abaddon permanently. As for the rest of the Primarchs, until they return and their current power and abilities are revealed, we don't know for sure. The Silent King could likely beat him, but I think it could go either way potentially. We'd have to see Szarekh's abilities more fully revealed, because we don't know much still... The Pheonix Lords, no one can say for sure, but they're capable of killing him, but probably don't have the fortitude to withstand him. Vect and Drazhar are very much capable of killing him, but the outcome wouldn't be clear. It's more likely that Abaddon wins. The Swarm Lord can't even defeat a Primarch, so there's no chance it would win currently, until it's able to evolve to the level of a Primarch's power at least. So there's a possibility in the future since Tyranids are always evolving.


DeleteWolf

Not Eldrad, not even in a Close-Combat 1v1


big_bara_tiddies

Funny you say that...


Kriss3d

I've been reading through Cadia stands and I'm around halfway through. Damn abbadon is a Dick for just taking a forgeworld into Cadia.


XAgentNovemberX

I’m sorry but any argument that he could beat a primarch is insane. Alpharius was considered one of the least capable combatants (this is a lie) and dude would still dad dick abbadon. Guilliman? Not in 30K and definitely not now that he’s on that Emp juice.


Arkslippyjunior121c

Probably daemon perty unless the chaos gods step in and save abbadon again. G-man would loose definitely as he just isn't as good a duelist. Morty Probably could but wouldn't since nurgle would get in trouble with the other 3. Angron is basically an unstoppable force 1 on 1 so he could but with the same problem as Morty. Kharn could (over 1 million melee kills would do that) but same issue as angron Silent King would wreck his ass without intervention from the chaos gods Maugen-Ra is basically eldar kharn so yes Orikan if he went god mode would. (If you read infinite and the divine you would know why) Trajan would be close but I say he could win. These are my picks for Abbadon slaying characters


Album321

>G-man would loose definitely as he just isn't as good a duelist. He's still a primarch, though. :p


TheMoldyTatertot

What about luft Huron the black heart?


Arkslippyjunior121c

He is pretty weak after coping a melta shot and the gods don't seem to physically enhance him He is also not favoured by the gods so he doesn't have a safety net


acommonfrog

He isn't really present in the current lore, but i like to think smoke demon Corvus Corax could be on this list


ChainzawMan

Everyone and no one. It always depends on the circumstance they find themselves in. But for the sake of pointing at a character: Erebus. Because true fairness is never achieved by unequal individuals.


Vohsbergh

Pretty much no one. His plot armor is so thick he literally one shots other characters every time he faces them. That’s actually his biggest drawback as a character for me, he never really faces any adversity in combat and his “failures” are usually the result of poor planning rather than him getting beat straight up. Of course if BL does write a character that can beat him it’ll just end up in the Sharrowkyn/Lucius debate cycle.


XAgentNovemberX

I think Loken is gonna slap the shit outta him before getting killed due to some weak ass plot armor.


seberick

The lion with sword of emps dumpsters him